389 replies to this topic

[D. C. Sessions]

This ^

[LFC]

Trump seems to be on a mission to piss off all of our alleys. First it was South Korea and Japan. Next up he is using the possibility of tariffs to threaten the nations involved in NAFTA.

Quote

After spending the weekend publishing angry tweets defending his call for tariffs on imported steel and aluminum, President Donald Trump on Monday morning indicated that he may nix plans for the tariffs if he’s pleased with the renegotiation of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).

Next up he goes out of his way to piss off the EU.

Quote

President Donald Trump further escalated his trade war rhetoric on Saturday by threatening to put a tax on cars manufactured in European Union countries.

“If the E.U. wants to further increase their already massive tariffs and barriers on U.S. companies doing business there, we will simply apply a Tax on their Cars which freely pour into the U.S,” Trump tweeted. “They make it impossible for our cars (and more) to sell there. Big trade imbalance!”

The declaration was likely in response to reports that E.U leaders are considering slapping duties on about $3.5 billion worth of American imports in retaliation to Trump’s proposed tariffs on steel and aluminum.

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said the E.U will put tariffs on “Harley-Davidson, on bourbon and on blue jeans – Levis,” according to Reuters.

“We would like a reasonable relationship to the United States, but we cannot simply put our head in the sand,” said Juncker.

I'm coining a new term for Trump; Neo-Econ. He really does believe he can start multiple trade wars and win them all. It's easy! He believes that America is so mighty that he can bully his way into forcing all other nations in doing his bidding. They will fall before his feet and whimper for mercy and we will win, win, WIN!!!

This is what happens when you don't have any experience in politics ... and are insane. As anybody with a scrap of foreign policy experience could tell you the U.S. isn't the only nation with nationalist pride. There are a lot of politicians in those nations who know they can keep their seats (and lots who know they have a chance to gain a seat) by blaming every scrap of bad economic news following this on America whether Trump was the actual cause or not. To paraphrase the late (I wish) great (in his own mind) Donald Rumsfeld:

Quote

I can't tell you if the use of force in Iraq trade wars today would last five days, or five weeks, or five months, but it certainly isn't going to last any longer than that.

[LFC]

LFC, on 05 March 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

Trump seems to be on a mission to piss off all of our alleys. First it was South Korea and Japan. Next up he is using the possibility of tariffs to threaten the nations involved in NAFTA.

Next up he goes out of his way to piss off the EU.

Add Australia to the list.

Quote

Donald Trump “emphatically” promised to exempt Australian steel and aluminum from import tariffs during a meeting with Australia’s prime minister last year. The vow was witnessed by senior lawmakers on both sides, including U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, and chief economic adviser Gary Cohn, Australia’s national broadcaster, ABC, reported. The promise was made in the “steel cage,” the president’s mobile secure-communications pod, on the sidelines of the G-20 meeting in Hamburg, Germany, in July 2017. The Australian government has, therefore, been stunned by statements by U.S. officials that there will be no country-specific exemptions to the tariffs.

[JackD]

Why would the Australian PM or anyone else ever believe him anyway?

[golden_valley]

JackD, on 05 March 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

Why would the Australian PM or anyone else ever believe him anyway?

I doubt any world leader believes a thing Trump says. As we in the US have learned, whatever is said today, the opposite thing can easily come out of Trump's mouth at a later time.

[LFC]

It's kind of amusing (in a schadenfreudic way) to watch conservatives who helped pave the way for Trump for years now in angst because their Frankensteinian monster got away from them. Here's one of TDB's pet conservatives bemoaning Trump and Wilbur Ross.

Quote

The most recent incident involves Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, who has become something of a buffoon of late. Defending Donald Trump seems to be a thankless and corrupting endeavor, and one of the many pitfalls is that it is almost impossible to come across as eloquent or even coherent. Take, for example, Ross’s inability to answer the simplest of questions about Trump’s proposed tariffs on steel and aluminum from “Meet the Press” host Chuck Todd on Sunday:

CHUCK TODD: So this is going to happen this week for sure? The way he said it, 25%, 10%?

SECRETARY WILBUR ROSS: Whatever his final decision is is what will happen.

CHUCK TODD: Meaning this isn't a done deal.

SECRETARY WILBUR ROSS: I didn't say that. I just said what he has said he has said. If he says something different, it'll be something different. I have no reason to think he's going to change.

There was more, but you get the point. What he basically said was that President Trump will do what he said he would do—unless he changes his mind. The problem, of course, is that this means there is zero reason for Ross to have been a guest on the show—other than, that is, to provide “content” for NBC. After all, the premise of having an insider on as a surrogate is that you might glean something of meaning from the interview. Ross has essentially destroyed this façade.

He might as well have said, “Your guess is as good as mine, Chuck” or “Let me be honest, I have no idea what’s going to happen,” or maybe something closer to the actual truth: “Having me on your show is pointless, Chuck, since I work for a capricious and mercurial boss who does not delegate authority and thus cannot empower anyone to speak on his behalf.

The good news for Ross is that he clearly doesn’t realize how silly he looks. One almost admires this quality—this lack of self-consciousness. It must be liberating—and clearly helpful for someone attempting to survive this administration.

It is clear that Ross has lost the ability to be introspective, based on his decision to go on TV last week, in front of what appeared to be a yacht in the background, and hold up a can of soup. And basically declare, as some have said, “Let them eat soup!” And—as an alleged billionaire, mind you— tell the American people that this 25% steel tariff means we will only have to pay a few hundred extra dollars to purchase a car.

[Progressive whisperer]

Anyone introspective working for Dump - would either quit or commit suicide in despair of the future’s view if this time.

[Sinan]

He forgets we expect to export goods to the very countries he wants to put tariffs on. They can retaliate in kind. The man is truly stupid, he is Homer Simpson with an army.

[LFC]

Right-wing economist Stephen Moore who has a history of denying reality is finally accepting a big heaping dose of it. Taste good, Stevie? Of course he's trying to tell the countries Trump is going after that they should shut up and take it because otherwise it could cause Trump to start a trade war. I guess that's a sideways declaration that his guy is a tantrum throwing man-baby.

Quote

Trump-backing conservative economist Stephen Moore on Monday sounded the alarm on a potentially devastating trade war that could take place if Canada and the European Union decide to retaliate against President Donald Trump’s proposed steel and aluminum tariffs.

Speaking with CNN, Moore criticized Trump’s decision to announce the president’s tariff announcement and said that America faced real danger of sparking a disruptive battle over trade that could end up raising prices for consumers across the board.

“We’re at a very dangerous moment right now,” Moore said. “I do think it would be a big mistake if the Europeans and Canada and China retaliate because, knowing Donald Trump as we all do, this is a guy who doesn’t back down and he’s a counter-puncher. If they start imposing higher tariffs then you’ll get an escalation and that’s how trade wars do start.”

Moore said that he has no problem with Trump taking some retaliatory actions against China, but he said it makes no sense to slap across-the-board steel tariffs on allied countries, especially if he does it on the basis of national security.

“This is the first act — I hope cooler heads prevail and that Donald Trump will maybe just impose these steel tariffs on China,” he said. “There’s no reason we need to have steel tariffs on Mexico and Canada if it’s a national security issue. Is anybody worried about Canada invading the United States?”

[LFC]

A quick note from TPM on Trump and his pissing contest with the EU. The second paragraph shows how Trump doing Putin's bidding yet again.

Quote

You’ve probably seen President Trump’s tweets over the weekend lashing out at America’s European allies over trade. There’s no better way to understand the mindset than to read this post from June 2016. It’s a revelation.

Also don’t forget this: decoupling the United States from the major states and economies of Western Europe has been the central foreign policy goal of Russia for about 70 years.

[indy]

Canada, the EU, South Korea, and Mexico are our top steel importers, in that order. Sowing discord with them must have Putin laughing his ass off.

Russia is a rogue state and maybe some folks are finally starting to realize it.

[Progressive whisperer]

LFC, on 05 March 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

Right-wing economist Stephen Moore who has a history of denying reality is finally accepting a big heaping dose of it. Taste good, Stevie? Of course he's trying to tell the countries Trump is going after that they should shut up and take it because otherwise it could cause Trump to start a trade war. I guess that's a sideways declaration that his guy is a tantrum throwing man-baby.

“Don’t make me hit you!”?

[AnBr]

Sinan, on 05 March 2018 - 04:52 PM, said:

He forgets we expect to export goods to the very countries he wants to put tariffs on. They can retaliate in kind. The man is truly stupid, he is Homer Simpson with an army.

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe

[LFC]

indy, on 05 March 2018 - 06:42 PM, said:

Russia is a rogue state and maybe some folks non-Republicans are finally starting to realize it.

FTFY

AnBr, on 05 March 2018 - 07:50 PM, said:

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe

I wonder if we can get Charles to write a script that simply posts this quote every day because with our current President Moron it's just so perfect EVERY F***ING DAY!

[LFC]

Congressional Republicans are also accepting reality and are scared shitless of Trump's trade wars. I guess they don't agree that winning is "easy". And they see the potential impact on the upcoming mid-term elections with are just 8 months away. Tick, tick, tick.

Quote

Just days after the president announced in a haphazard manner that his administration would be imposing new tariffs on steel and aluminum, Republican lawmakers came out in droves to warn about the negative consequences they foresaw.

Their message on Monday was clear: The tariffs not only wouldn’t work, but they’d further endanger the party’s already shaky grip on its congressional majorities.

“The problem is bigger than the politics of one party or another’s messaging. The reality is tariffs are insanely stupid. And nobody ever wins a trade war. Both sides lose trade wars,” Sen. Ben Sasse (R-NE) told The Daily Beast. “Of course I want the Republican message to be effective in the midterm elections. But far more than that, we should all care about America’s economic growth.”

It was, perhaps, the most profound policy break within the Republican party since Trump took office. And it threatened to trample much of the goodwill that the president has built up within the ranks. GOP lawmakers fretted that in pushing for punitive, broad-based tariffs, Trump would not only wipe out the benefits of the tax-cut package that he and others had been touting since its passage late last year, but he would also overshadow the party’s positive economic message heading into this year’s midterm elections.

Voters, the worry went, would reap the benefits of a tax cut in their paycheck, but they would surely notice the uptick in the price of consumer goods they purchase daily.

[Progressive whisperer]

Reap the benefits of the tax break, $1.50 at a time...

[LFC]

Well this has the potential of ramping this particular Trumper Tantrum up to 11.

Quote

The U.S. trade deficit rose in January to the highest level since October 2008, defying President Donald Trump’s efforts to bring more balance to America’s trade with the rest of the world.

The Commerce Department said Wednesday that the trade deficit rose to $56.6 billion in January, up 5 percent from $53.9 billion in December and the highest since October 2008’s $60.2 billion trade gap. The trade deficit — the gap between what America sells and what it buys abroad — has risen for five straight months.

Trump rattled financial markets last week by promising to slap big tariffs on imported steel and aluminum. He blames persistent deficits on abusive practices by U.S. trading partners and on bad trade deals that put American companies at a disadvantage or encourage them to move factories overseas.

Exports fell 1.3 percent to $200.9 billion in January, and imports were flat at $257.5 billion.

The United States ran a $76.5 billion deficit in the trade of goods, which was partially offset by a $19.9 billion surplus in services such as education and banking.

The $36 billion January deficit with China was the highest since September 2015. The trade gap with Mexico narrowed to $4.1 billion from $5.4 billion in December.

Steve Mnuchin tells us just what we don't want to hear; Trump's a moron on this issues. (To be fair he's a moron on all issues.) This is the great "deal maker". What a f***ing numbnuts.

Quote

“He is not afraid of getting into a trade war although that is not what we want,” Treasury Steven Mnuchin said in an interview Wednesday on the Fox Business Network. “We are just looking for fair and reciprocal trade.”

[LFC]

Trump just felt the return slap in the trade war from the EU. These tariffs would hurt the people in the places where his base is strongest. Does he fold or does he go full Trumper Tantrum?

Quote

The EU said Wednesday it would hit flagship US products including peanut butter, orange juice and bourbon whiskey with counter measures if US President Donald Trump goes ahead with threatened steel and aluminium tariffs.

The blow by Brussels came hours after Trump’s trade offensive brought the resignation of his top economic advisor Gary Cohn, an influential ex-Goldman Sachs banker who fiercely opposed the measures.

EU trade commissioner Cecilia Malmstroem said a full-on transatlantic trade war was “not in anybody’s interests” — a stark contrast from Trump, who last week declared trade wars were “good and easy to win”.

“A trade war has no winners,” Sweden’s Malmstroem told reporters after the European Commission, which handles trade matters for the bloc, discussed the tariffs.

“We should be very careful with that word… there are only losers in that, and that’s why we will respond in a proportionate and balanced way.”

The European Union is holding fire on its reprisals as Trump has yet to sign into effect his plan to set tariffs for what he calls unfair competition for US industry, but Malmstroem said a list of products had been drawn up including steel, industrial and agricultural items.

“Certain types of bourbon are on the list as are other items such as peanut butter, cranberries, orange juice,” Malmstroem said.

European Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker on Friday threatened to hit big-name US brands such as Harley Davidson motorbikes and Levi’s jeans with import duties, prompting Trump to fire back a threat to tax cars from the EU.

[golden_valley]

If there is one thing that is consistent about Trump it is that when people tell him he's wrong, he is energized and gets louder and more bullying.

[Rich T Bikkies]

golden_valley, on 07 March 2018 - 06:40 PM, said:

If there is one thing that is consistent about Trump it is that when people tell him he's wrong, he is energized and gets louder and more bullying.

Fasten your seatbelts, it's gonna be a bumpy night.