Rand Paul spoke at Harvard’s Kennedy Institute of Politics Friday, and he talked about his libertarian tendencies as well as his desire to broaden the GOP to welcome more people in. He described himself as “libertarian-ish,” in that despite his very clear libertarian political leanings, he’s generally supported fellow Republicans and hasn’t really backed Libertarian party candidates (save for his father during his 1988 presidential run).
Paul, according to CNN, also talked about making the Republican party “bigger” and much more inclusive, saying that unless Republicans “broaden their message” to reach more people, winning future elections is going to be a bit of a problem.
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Rand Paul Wants Bigger GOP: ‘You Go to a Republican Event and It’s All White People’
Started By D. R. Tucker, Apr 26 2014 07:00 AM
14 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 26 April 2014 - 07:09 AM
That's a very good idea, Rand. Just one problem: a large portion (perhaps a majority) of your Base is heavily motivated by exclusion. They're all about keeping their own privileges, and if you stop offering them those exclusionary policies, you're going to lose a lot of them to someone who makes them a better offer. For instance, a deck stacked less for the rich and multinational corporations and more tilted to average (and poor) people like them.
If you succeed, the Republican Party will be just like the Democratic Party, except with a pure plutocratic agenda. You're sure to do very well with the top 5%, but that's about it.
If you succeed, the Republican Party will be just like the Democratic Party, except with a pure plutocratic agenda. You're sure to do very well with the top 5%, but that's about it.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO
#3
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Posted 26 April 2014 - 09:00 AM
GOPers are mostly white? Cue the sun. Hahahaha! Rand Paul wants to be President, and he'll say whatever it takes to position himself.
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“A republic,” Franklin said, “if you can keep it.”
--- LFC, on Gorsuch ruling: "Awesome. A Christianist who swore an oath to uphold the laws of the nation and bore false witness when he did it"
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---Julia Child
--- On September 17, 1787, as Benjamin Franklin was leaving the deliberations of the Constitutional Convention, at Independence Hall, in Philadelphia, a woman called out to him, saying, “Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?”
“A republic,” Franklin said, “if you can keep it.”
--- LFC, on Gorsuch ruling: "Awesome. A Christianist who swore an oath to uphold the laws of the nation and bore false witness when he did it"
--- "Write hard and clear about what hurts"
Ernest Hemingway
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Posted 26 April 2014 - 11:12 AM
I think pappy had a talk with him to tell him to quit catering so much to the baggers and to be more libertarian.
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Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
— Fran Lebowitz
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
— Carl Sagan
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
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Posted 26 April 2014 - 05:33 PM
AnBr, on 26 April 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:
I think pappy had a talk with him to tell him to quit catering so much to the baggers and to be more libertarian.
The Pauls aren't really libertarian in any but the current partisan sense. They're all for intrusive government, just as long as it's not Federal.
If you had to label them, the most accurate term would probably be "Confederate."
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO
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Posted 26 April 2014 - 07:34 PM
D. C. Sessions, on 26 April 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:
The Pauls aren't really libertarian in any but the current partisan sense. They're all for intrusive government, just as long as it's not Federal.
If you had to label them, the most accurate term would probably be "Confederate."
If you had to label them, the most accurate term would probably be "Confederate."
There's plenty to criticize with respect to both Pauls, but that's going way overboard and is pretty much obvious nonsense.
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"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools." -- Herbert Spencer
"Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position." -- Bill Maher
"Our new Government['s] foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition." -- Alexander Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederacy
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools." -- Herbert Spencer
"Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position." -- Bill Maher
"Our new Government['s] foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition." -- Alexander Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederacy
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Posted 26 April 2014 - 09:45 PM
cmk, on 26 April 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:
There's plenty to criticize with respect to both Pauls, but that's going way overboard and is pretty much obvious nonsense.
How so? They're both on record as being perfectly fine with a long list of things as long as they're strictly at the State level -- including the whole of the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act.
Which, as far as I can tell, puts them squarely in the "Confederate" camp as opposed to the "Federalist" camp. "States' Rights über alles" and all that.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO
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Probably in one of my drunken stupors..
Posted 26 April 2014 - 10:24 PM
I think the "perfectly fine" in this case is quibbling about jurisdiction, not policy. Libertarianism is a matter of policy, entirely orthogonal to particular feelings about the legal relationship between the federal government and the states.
I am the burrito until someone hands me to a philosopher.
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Posted 27 April 2014 - 08:07 AM
Precisely my point, J-CA. The Pauls don't object to the power of the State, they just have preferences regarding which State exercises them.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO
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Posted 27 April 2014 - 09:02 AM
D. C. Sessions, on 26 April 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:
The Pauls aren't really libertarian in any but the current partisan sense. They're all for intrusive government, just as long as it's not Federal.
If you had to label them, the most accurate term would probably be "Confederate."
If you had to label them, the most accurate term would probably be "Confederate."
No, what they believe in (the elder Paul anyway) is the federalist paradigm and states rights.
The potential "intrusiveness" there or lack of it cuts both ways under that paradigm not in one direction only.
If Texas, Utah and Alabama pass strong restrictions on abortion, fewer restrictions on gun rights and don't recognize SSM, under the federalist paradigm properly understood, California, Massachusetts or Connecticut can do the exact opposite. There is no evidence I am aware of either Paul would oppose that.
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Posted 27 April 2014 - 09:05 AM
States rights will always be a cover for southern states and red states to do what they want regardless of the times. Every hear a lefty Dem in Sacramento make a big case based on the 10th amendment? Nope. Given how cheap and easy it is to buy a state's elections, this is just a way for special interests and rabid minority groups to get what they want locally when they can't get it done nationally. Personally, I am for a complete overhaul of federalism myself. Let's start with the Electoral College and then districting....check this out.
http://www.slate.com..._50_states.html
A vote in Wyoming is the most powerful vote in the nation for POTUS. Go figure.
http://www.slate.com..._50_states.html
A vote in Wyoming is the most powerful vote in the nation for POTUS. Go figure.
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Posted 27 April 2014 - 09:53 AM
The Pauls are on record as being opposed to more government of more types than pretty much any other mainstream politicians. They are far from perfect, but portraying them as "all for intrusive government" is nonsensical.
A rather warped (and typically biased) view of reality. Whole categories of left-wing pet social projects and causes have gotten their starts solely on the basis of being able to pass laws at the state level. Do you think gay rights would be where they are today if not for states' rights? Environment protection? Labor laws? Even the abolition of slavery arguably traces back to state action.
ETA: Obamacare, thanks to Romneycare. Impetus for raising the minimum wage. Legalization of marijuana. Women's suffrage began at the state and local level. Etc. etc.
Sinan, on 27 April 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:
States rights will always be a cover for southern states and red states to do what they want regardless of the times. Every hear a lefty Dem in Sacramento make a big case based on the 10th amendment? Nope.
A rather warped (and typically biased) view of reality. Whole categories of left-wing pet social projects and causes have gotten their starts solely on the basis of being able to pass laws at the state level. Do you think gay rights would be where they are today if not for states' rights? Environment protection? Labor laws? Even the abolition of slavery arguably traces back to state action.
ETA: Obamacare, thanks to Romneycare. Impetus for raising the minimum wage. Legalization of marijuana. Women's suffrage began at the state and local level. Etc. etc.
Charles M. Kozierok - Administrator, TalkRadioSucks.com
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools." -- Herbert Spencer
"Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position." -- Bill Maher
"Our new Government['s] foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition." -- Alexander Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederacy
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools." -- Herbert Spencer
"Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position." -- Bill Maher
"Our new Government['s] foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition." -- Alexander Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederacy
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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:20 PM
cmk, on 27 April 2014 - 09:53 AM, said:
The Pauls are on record as being opposed to more government of more types than pretty much any other mainstream politicians. They are far from perfect, but portraying them as "all for intrusive government" is nonsensical.
They're both on record in favor States' ability to enforce Jim Crow laws. Perhaps you could point us to some kind of government power they oppose?
Don't get me wrong; I'm sure that there are government powers they oppose right on down to the municipal level -- we all have those. But their main focus is on opposition to Federal laws, not because the Government shouldn't have those powers but because the Federal government should be weaker than the States. Which, historically, is a "confederate" position as distinct from a "federalist" position.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO
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Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:25 PM
Come on, DC. The Pauls' positions are well-documented all over the place.
As just one example off the top of my head, did Rand Paul not lead a filibuster over the use of aerial drones against Americans?
If you really care about this topic, as opposed to just taking pot shots at the Pauls/libertarianism, you can quite easily find all this information.
As just one example off the top of my head, did Rand Paul not lead a filibuster over the use of aerial drones against Americans?
If you really care about this topic, as opposed to just taking pot shots at the Pauls/libertarianism, you can quite easily find all this information.
Quote
Paul opposes the USA PATRIOT Act, including warrantless searches and breach of individual privacy.[13] He has also proposed that the TSA be eliminated[14] and opposes the extrajudicial killing of American citizens in the United States who are terrorism suspects.[15] He did however express support for domestic use of armed drones for law enforcement to use.[16]
Charles M. Kozierok - Administrator, TalkRadioSucks.com
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools." -- Herbert Spencer
"Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position." -- Bill Maher
"Our new Government['s] foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition." -- Alexander Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederacy
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools." -- Herbert Spencer
"Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position." -- Bill Maher
"Our new Government['s] foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition." -- Alexander Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederacy
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Posted 27 April 2014 - 01:10 PM
cmk, on 27 April 2014 - 09:53 AM, said:
The Pauls are on record as being opposed to more government of more types than pretty much any other mainstream politicians. They are far from perfect, but portraying them as "all for intrusive government" is nonsensical.
I'll agree with you that the Pauls, at least Ron are more Libertarian than the baggers, but I do not see them as purely Libertarian.
cmk, on 27 April 2014 - 09:53 AM, said:
A rather warped (and typically biased) view of reality. Whole categories of left-wing pet social projects and causes have gotten their starts solely on the basis of being able to pass laws at the state level. Do you think gay rights would be where they are today if not for states' rights? Environment protection? Labor laws? Even the abolition of slavery arguably traces back to state action.
ETA: Obamacare, thanks to Romneycare. Impetus for raising the minimum wage. Legalization of marijuana. Women's suffrage began at the state and local level. Etc. etc.
ETA: Obamacare, thanks to Romneycare. Impetus for raising the minimum wage. Legalization of marijuana. Women's suffrage began at the state and local level. Etc. etc.
There is a difference between implementing something new at a local/state level and using the 10th as justification for nullification to try to undo federal law..
“Trump’s a stupid man’s idea of a smart person, a poor man’s idea of a rich person & a weak man’s idea of a strong man.”
— Fran Lebowitz
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
— Carl Sagan
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
— Fran Lebowitz
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
— Carl Sagan
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
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