Jump to content


Krugman: The Economics of Soaking the Rich


9 replies to this topic

#1 AnBr

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 12291 posts

Posted 09 January 2019 - 11:01 AM

https://www.nytimes....licy-dance.html

Quote

The controversy of the moment involves AOC’s advocacy of a tax rate of 70-80 percent on very high incomes, which is obviously crazy, right? I mean, who thinks that makes sense? Only ignorant people like … um, Peter Diamond, Nobel laureate in economics and arguably the world’s leading expert on public finance. (Although Republicans blocked him from an appointment to the Federal Reserve Board with claims that he was unqualified. Really.) And it’s a policy nobody has ever implemented, aside from … the United States, for 35 years after World War II — including the most successful period of economic growth in our history.

To be more specific, Diamond, in work with Emmanuel Saez — one of our leading experts on inequality — estimated the optimal top tax rate to be 73 percent. Some put it higher: Christina Romer, top macroeconomist and former head of President Obama’s Council of Economic Advisers, estimates it at more than 80 percent.

Where do these numbers come from? Underlying the Diamond-Saez analysis are two propositions: Diminishing marginal utility and competitive markets.

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#2 AnBr

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 12291 posts

Posted 09 January 2019 - 11:05 AM

Also,

Quote

Diminishing marginal utility is the common-sense notion that an extra dollar is worth a lot less in satisfaction to people with very high incomes than to those with low incomes. Give a family with an annual income of $20,000 an extra $1,000 and it will make a big difference to their lives. Give a guy who makes $1 million an extra thousand and he’ll barely notice it.

Reminds me of the statement by a British Lord on the subject of taxation, "equal pain."
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#3 Traveler

    Rambling Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 12579 posts
  • LocationPhilly Area

Posted 09 January 2019 - 12:16 PM

Which makes the donor class' single minded pursuit of more money at the expense of everyone else even more perplexing.

As I have mentioned before, having cap gains (with indexing) taxed as ordinary income wouild go a long way. And to keep the 10% happy, make the first 100k at the current lower rate. Most of the 10% work for their income so this would have a negligible effect.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#4 HockeyDon

    Mind blown...

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3454 posts
  • LocationNew Britain, CT

Posted 09 January 2019 - 01:20 PM

How happy are the people living in countries with a high top marginal tax rate? They must be miserable, right?

Finland is at 65% (no. 1 happiest)
Norway is at 39.6% (no. 2 happiest))
Denmark is at 60.4% (no. 3 happiest)
Iceland is at 46.3% (no. 4 happiest)
Netherlands is at 51.95% (no. 6 happiest)

Huh.
Well, fuck.

How can I be expected to distinguish BS from reality when so much of my reality is utter BS?!

"There seems to be a lot of people dying of ignorance while living in the information age." my sister-in-law.

#5 baw1064

    formerly of the public sector

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4444 posts
  • LocationEarthquakes, tsunamis, and volcanos--oh my!

Posted 09 January 2019 - 01:41 PM

View PostHockeyDon, on 09 January 2019 - 01:20 PM, said:

How happy are the people living in countries with a high top marginal tax rate? They must be miserable, right?

Finland is at 65% (no. 1 happiest)
Norway is at 39.6% (no. 2 happiest))
Denmark is at 60.4% (no. 3 happiest)
Iceland is at 46.3% (no. 4 happiest)
Netherlands is at 51.95% (no. 6 happiest)

Huh.

Yeah, but how happy is the 0.1% in those countries?
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#6 HockeyDon

    Mind blown...

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3454 posts
  • LocationNew Britain, CT

Posted 09 January 2019 - 01:55 PM

View Postbaw1064, on 09 January 2019 - 01:41 PM, said:

Yeah, but how happy is the 0.1% in those countries?

IDGAF.

Sorry to be so crass.
Well, fuck.

How can I be expected to distinguish BS from reality when so much of my reality is utter BS?!

"There seems to be a lot of people dying of ignorance while living in the information age." my sister-in-law.

#7 baw1064

    formerly of the public sector

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4444 posts
  • LocationEarthquakes, tsunamis, and volcanos--oh my!

Posted 09 January 2019 - 02:12 PM

View PostHockeyDon, on 09 January 2019 - 01:55 PM, said:

IDGAF.

Sorry to be so crass.

Just to be clear, I was being snarky.
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#8 andydp

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3362 posts
  • LocationUpstate NY near Albany

Posted 09 January 2019 - 02:28 PM

Just to warn the group:

I’m seeing a lot of memes indicating the Democrats (Satan’s spawn) want to take your (Joe blow’s) money. A new wrinkle: take the guns too.
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

Rev Martin Luther King Jr.


Obamacare took my guns away and put me in a FEMA reeducation camp.

Anonymous

If you've got public schools paid for by taxpayers, you're in a socialist nation. If you have public roads paid for by taxpayers, socialist nation. If you've got public defense (police, fire, military, coast guard) paid for by tax dollars, socialist nation. If you're in a nation that has nationalized or localized delivery of services that are not paid for by users alone, you're in a socialist nation- the only question is how socialist. As I see it, we have the military pay to protecting the shipping lanes for our fuel needs which makes up very socialist. In a capitalist nation, the people supplying the oil would pay for their own defense force.


DC Coronata

#9 D. C. Sessions

    I don't have to pretend to be an adult any more

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 8751 posts
  • LocationCentral New Mexico

Posted 09 January 2019 - 02:59 PM

View Postandydp, on 09 January 2019 - 02:28 PM, said:

A new wrinkle: take the guns too.

Wow. That really is new.
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#10 HockeyDon

    Mind blown...

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3454 posts
  • LocationNew Britain, CT

Posted 10 January 2019 - 06:38 AM

View Postbaw1064, on 09 January 2019 - 02:12 PM, said:

Just to be clear, I was being snarky.

Oh I know. I was just being extra concise. :)
Well, fuck.

How can I be expected to distinguish BS from reality when so much of my reality is utter BS?!

"There seems to be a lot of people dying of ignorance while living in the information age." my sister-in-law.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users