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Former UK ambassador says Syrian Chemical Attacks were Staged - BBC interview.


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#81 J-CA

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 04:34 PM

This whole thing is just the equivalent of someone FOIAing the emails of a prominent scientist and then finding that scientist and another scientist arguing about something in a paper and then concluding on that basis that the paper is invalid and thus global warming is a giant hoax. The whole point of this is to use some technical squabble to somehow refute the enormous amount of evidence that the Syrians have gassed their own people many, many times. And then after that we are supposed to decide that despite the government bombing hospitals and schools the White Helmets are the real terrorists.
This is just getting played by very basic propaganda techniques, it is stupid.

Or Roger Waters will show us all the real truth I guess.
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#82 J-CA

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 06:33 PM

Has anyone read the actual document? I just started reading it, now I know why this is a non-story:
http://syriapropagan...uary-2019-1.pdf
When you get to page 6, item 25 you can see what this is all about. The physical characteristics of this particular strike differ from other observed stikes in that the cylinder in question didn't suffer any damage passing through the ceiling of the room it landed in.. because the hole in question was probably made by mortar or artillery round.
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#83 George Rowell

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 06:48 PM

View PostJ-CA, on 22 May 2019 - 06:33 PM, said:

Has anyone read the actual document? I just started reading it, now I know why this is a non-story:
http://syriapropagan...uary-2019-1.pdf
When you get to page 6, item 25 you can see what this is all about. The physical characteristics of this particular strike differ from other observed stikes in that the cylinder in question didn't suffer any damage passing through the ceiling of the room it landed in.. because the hole in question was probably made by mortar or artillery round.
An engineer you are not. If that were the case the bomb would of gone right through the bed and the floor below too.
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#84 J-CA

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 09:12 PM

View PostGeorge Rowell, on 22 May 2019 - 06:48 PM, said:

An engineer you are not. If that were the case the bomb would of gone right through the bed and the floor below too.
No "bombs" involved here.

All this report indicates is that no one knows exactly how that cylinder got there, that's it. Just like my first post said, this is just people studying something, trying to figure out what might have happened and selective leaking is sending every wack-a-doodle Assad sympathizer jumping on it like it is evidence of some multinational conspiracy.
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#85 George Rowell

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 09:41 PM

The whole point is 'cylinder' was meant to be dropped from a helicopter by the order of evil Assad. That is why we sent off scores of missiles.

A cylinder dropped from a helicopter hovering at 500m would arrive through the open hole in the roof you described, after a ten second journey, at 100m/s. That is getting on for 340ft per second, the low end speed (400-800fps) of a Colt45 bullet!

A 50Kg bullet hitting a bed would be a sight to behold.
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#86 George Rowell

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 11:22 PM

Here is an article about the OPCW leak in the Independent by Robert Fisk. (BTW, try finding it with a google search - I doubt you will get lucky).

https://www.independ...a-a8927116.html

"The OPCW officially maintains that these canisters were probably dropped by an aircraft – probably a helicopter, presumably Syrian – over Douma on 7 April 2018. But the dissenting assessment, which the OPCW made no reference to in its published conclusions, finds there is a “higher probability that both cylinders were manually placed at those two locations rather than being delivered from aircraft”.

It is difficult to underestimate the seriousness of this manipulative act by the OPCW."



I agree!
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#87 George Rowell

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 01:41 AM

The official version that the cylinder was dropped from a helicopter has been debunked under every different analysis performed. The size and the shape of the hole in the roof, the crushing of the cylinder and the placing of the cylinder, but the most devastating evidence in the cases of both cylinders are the energy equations on both accounts.

1) The potential energy in both cases from a 500m drop, the absolute minimum height, would still be far in access of the actual crushing observed on BOTH cylinders.
2) Despite the evidence in one above, it transpires that the kinetic energy of the cylinder was magically exactly equal to the energy required to penetrate the roof, not too much, not too little, EXACTLY, so that the cylinder floated down the last couple of meters to gently rest on the bed.

The report completely destroys the theory that the cylinder was dropped from an aircraft. But the report has been stonewalled by the main stream media.

What to expect now? That is easy:-
Continued stone walling to see if the problem goes away.
Proclaim the author, Ian Henderson, was not on the real team, maybe a fringe expect who was consulted for his personal opinion.
Dismiss Ian Henderson's professional ability, maybe personal character.
Concoct another report or two that do support the helicopter theory.

Come on TRS, where are you, something stinks, why is the press not roaring 'Fake', 'Staged', 'OPCW Compromised'? The silence is deafening.
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#88 AnBr

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 04:03 PM

Sigh
“Trump’s a stupid man’s idea of a smart person, a poor man’s idea of a rich person & a weak man’s idea of a strong man.”

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Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

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On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


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Second inaugural address January, 1937

#89 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 07:20 PM

View PostGeorge Rowell, on 25 May 2019 - 01:41 AM, said:

Come on TRS, where are you, something stinks, why is the press not roaring 'Fake', 'Staged', 'OPCW Compromised'? The silence is deafening.

I think we're all just punch-drunk with outrage fatigue (you know, a sort of second cousin to compassion fatigue). T S Eliot: "Humankind cannot bear too much reality".
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

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#90 George Rowell

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Posted 25 May 2019 - 08:49 PM

View PostRich T Bikkies, on 25 May 2019 - 07:20 PM, said:

I think we're all just punch-drunk with outrage fatigue (you know, a sort of second cousin to compassion fatigue). T S Eliot: "Humankind cannot bear too much reality".
I know something people will believe. How about this. The report was hacked by the Kremlin to discredit the OPCW. Evil Russians again, that works every time. And it was carried out under the direct orders of Vladimir Putin too. Tell the crowd what they want to hear.

First stone wall it long as possible.
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#91 golden_valley

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 10:43 AM

The bottom line is that there is no US support for further intervention in the Middle East...aside from Trump's bellowing and bragging about it. There hasn't been any since before 2012 when Obama drew the line in the sand but realized that Congress wasn't interested in supporting it, nor were the American people.

Incidentally, Russia and the US worked together trying to get rid of chemical weapons back in 2013-14.

#92 J-CA

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Posted 26 May 2019 - 09:44 PM

I think the main takeaway is the OPCW has accused both sides in the conflict of using chemical agents and the leak of this technical document demonstrates that they are doing thorough assessments of the physical evidence before they come to conclusions. Accusations that they are engaged in some kind of one-sided hit-job on Assad is not supported by the available evidence.
The OPCW has used very specific language in their reports and have in some cases simply declined to attribute sources to attacks.
The reason the mainstream media is not covering this wall-to-wall is because there is no new story here, the story is still, most of the actors in this theatre are bad guys.

But it should be noted that the only actor in this theatre that was already a dictator that was killing his own citizens for dissent was Assad.
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#93 George Rowell

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 04:14 AM

View PostJ-CA, on 26 May 2019 - 09:44 PM, said:

I think the main takeaway is the OPCW has accused both sides in the conflict of using chemical agents and the leak of this technical document demonstrates that they are doing thorough assessments of the physical evidence before they come to conclusions. Accusations that they are engaged in some kind of one-sided hit-job on Assad is not supported by the available evidence.
The OPCW has used very specific language in their reports and have in some cases simply declined to attribute sources to attacks.
The reason the mainstream media is not covering this wall-to-wall is because there is no new story here, the story is still, most of the actors in this theatre are bad guys.

But it should be noted that the only actor in this theatre that was already a dictator that was killing his own citizens for dissent was Assad.
And your views were formed by what? Yes, Murdoch and Co's media machine. I have given you a long list of alternative coherent sources on the so called Douma chemical attack, including the former head of the British army & military intelligence, two former Syrian ambassadors, another ambassador, the general in charge of the assault on Iraq, the BBC producer who says the scenes in the Douma documentary were staged and finally the devastating leaked OPCW report. The sources are pertain, informed and authoritative but you are incapable of accepting anything that goes against the media machine version. Nothing will change you. You are owned.

My view is that sadly the OPCW is compromised and can no longer be trusted. The mainstream media is no longer 'teasing out the truth' it fact it is stonewalling huge news stories that contradict it's narrative.

Where to go from now? I believe public concern must focus first on the news media and the organisations that control it. But that will not happen.

I have no answers. What saddens me, really saddens me, is intelligent people - the cream of the crop in my opinion (TRS) - do not see a problem. If you cannot then what hope is there? The truth will remain whatever the media machine want it to be.

It is not going to get any better, the media are perfecting their techniques. AI selects, tailors and streams our news, based on Google, FB and our own news clicks, to penetrate our individual mindsets, waylaying our doubts, reinforcing the fake news and ringing our bells.

You will of course disagree with everything I said, but you have no idea how sad that makes me.
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#94 J-CA

    Probably in one of my drunken stupors..

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 09:39 AM

I don't know George, only one of us here was tricked into linking to a website that was not the Guardian claiming it was the Guardian.. you are the one often posting links that are clearly build to feed that AI machine. This behaviour speaks for itself.
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#95 George Rowell

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 07:37 PM

View PostJ-CA, on 29 May 2019 - 09:39 AM, said:

I don't know George, only one of us here was tricked into linking to a website that was not the Guardian claiming it was the Guardian.. you are the one often posting links that are clearly build to feed that AI machine. This behaviour speaks for itself.
That is true J-CA.
I admit it.
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#96 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 05:27 AM

View PostGeorge Rowell, on 29 May 2019 - 07:37 PM, said:

That is true J-CA.
I admit it.

GO TO JAIL
GO DIRECTLY TO JAIL
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Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

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God is not dead. He was merely voted out of office.

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#97 George Rowell

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Posted 30 May 2019 - 06:48 AM

View PostRich T Bikkies, on 30 May 2019 - 05:27 AM, said:

GO TO JAIL
GO DIRECTLY TO JAIL
DO NOT PASS GO
DO NOT COLLECT £200
Two hundred what!!! Bloody pommies still think Britannia rules the waves. Two hundred bucks p-leeze, give Mr C. Darrow his due.
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#98 George Rowell

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 06:21 AM

https://www.dailymai...tack-Assad.html

The leaked email in full


From: ********
Sent: 22nd June 2018 08:27
To: *********
Subject: Grave concern about the 'redacted' Douma report


Dear ******,
I wish to express, as a member of the FFM (Fact Finding Mission) team that conducted the investigation into the alleged chemical attack in Douma on 7 April, my gravest concern at the redacted version of the FFM report, which I understand was at the behest of the ODG. (Office of the Director General). After reading this modified report, which incidentally no other team member who deployed into Douma has had the opportunity to do, I was struck by how much it misrepresents the facts. Many of the facts and observations outlined in the full version are inextricably interconnected and, by selectively omitting certain ones, an unintended bias has been introduced into the report, undermining its credibility. In other cases, some crucial facts that have remained in the redacted version have morphed into something quite different to what was initially drafted. If I may, I will outline some specific aspects to the redacted report that are particularly worrisome.
The statement in paragraph 8.3 of the final conclusions 'The team has sufficient evidence at this time to determine that chlorine, or another reactive chlorine-containing chemical, was likely released from cylinders', is highly misleading and not supported by the facts. The only evidence available at this moment is that some samples collected at Locations 2 and 4 were in contact with one or more chemicals that contain a reactive chlorine atom. Such chemicals could include molecular chlorine, phosgene, cyanogen chloride, hydrochloric acid, hydrogen chloride or sodium hypochlorite (the major ingredient of household chlorine-based bleach). Purposely singling out chlorine gas as one of the possibilities is disingenuous. It is also worth noting that the term 'reactive chlorine-containing chemical' used in the redacted report is, in fact, inaccurate. It actually describes a reactive chemical that contains chlorine which itself (the chlorine) is not necessarily reactive e.g. chlorophenol. The original report uses the more accurate term 'a chemical containing reactive chlorine'.
The redacted report states that the gas was likely released from the cylinders (in Locations 2 and 4). The original report purposely emphasised the fact that, although the cylinders might have been the source of the suspected chemical release, there was insufficient evidence to affirm this. It is possible the error was simply a typo. This is a major deviation from the original report.
Paragraph 8.2 states that 'based on the high levels of various chlorinated organic derivatives, [...] detected in environmental samples'. Describing the levels as 'high' likely overstates the extent of levels of chlorinated organic derivatives detected. They were, in most cases, present only in parts per billion range, as low as 1-2 ppb, which is essentially trace quantities.
The original report discusses in detail the inconsistency between the victims' symptoms, as reported by witnesses and seen in video recordings. Omitting this section of the report (including the Epidemiology which has been removed in its entirety) has a serious negative impact on the report as this section is inextricably linked to the chemical agent identified. It either supports or detracts from the confidence in the identity of any possible chemical. In this case the confidence in the identity of chlorine or any choking agent is drawn into question precisely because of the inconsistency with the reported and observed symptoms. The inconsistency was not only noted by the FFM team but strongly noted by three toxicologists with expertise in exposure to CW (Chemical Weapons) agents.
The original report has extensive sections regarding the placement of the cylinders at both locations as well as the relative damage caused to the impact points, compared to that caused to the cylinders suspected of being the sources of the toxic chemical. These sections are essentially absent from the redacted report. This information was important in assessing the likelihood of the 'presence' of toxic chemicals versus the 'use' of toxic chemicals.
A feature of this investigation and report was the robust and extensive scientific basis for sampling plans and analysing the data collected. A comprehensive bibliography of peer-reviewed scientific literature was attached to support and enhance the credibility of the work of the mission. This has unfortunately been omitted from the redacted report.
By singling out chlorine above other equally plausible substances containing reactive chlorine and presenting it as a fact in isolation creates, I believe, a level of partiality that would negatively impact on the perceived credibility of the report, and by extension that of the Organisation. I am requesting that the fact-finding report be released in its entirety as I fear that this redacted version no longer reflects the work of the team. The original report contains facts and observations that are all equally valid. The fact that inconsistencies are highlighted or observations not fully understood does not justify their omission. The inconsistencies and observations are based on the evidence and data collected. Further information in the future may help resolve them but the facts as they stand at present will not alter and need to be reported.
If the redacted version is to be released, I respectfully request to attach my differing observations, in accordance with the spirit of paragraph 62 of part II of the Verification Annex of the CWC.
Yours sincerely

(Key passages emphasised by Mail on Sunday)"

A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#99 AnBr

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 10:11 PM


“Trump’s a stupid man’s idea of a smart person, a poor man’s idea of a rich person & a weak man’s idea of a strong man.”

— Fran Lebowitz


“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#100 baw1064

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 10:42 PM

If they used phosgene instead of chlorine, that completely exonerates them!
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss





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