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Former UK ambassador says Syrian Chemical Attacks were Staged - BBC interview.


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#61 J-CA

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 10:32 PM

View PostGeorge Rowell, on 19 May 2019 - 10:17 PM, said:

Posted Image

Susan Sarandon
@SusanSarandon




This is really important. Why aren’t we talking about it?

"We may have just discovered a major piece of the puzzle explaining how seemingly independent international organizations help deceive us into consenting to wars and regime change interventionism around the world."
Her endorsement of this is right up there with her endorsement of Jill Stein in terms of credibility building..
I am the burrito until someone hands me to a philosopher.

#62 AnBr

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 12:40 AM

View PostGeorge Rowell, on 19 May 2019 - 10:17 PM, said:

Posted Image

Susan Sarandon
@SusanSarandon




This is really important. Why aren’t we talking about it?

"We may have just discovered a major piece of the puzzle explaining how seemingly independent international organizations help deceive us into consenting to wars and regime change interventionism around the world."

Susan Sarandon, that whack job? You've got to be kidding us, right? You may want to research her a little before using her to promote your view point.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#63 George Rowell

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 07:06 AM

View PostAnBr, on 20 May 2019 - 12:40 AM, said:

Susan Sarandon, that whack job? You've got to be kidding us, right? You may want to research her a little before using her to promote your view point.
So your logic is that anybody who does not agree with you is a whack job, right? If you are a believer in self congratulation then that's the way to go. And Rand Paul is a whack job too. The question you should be asking is why the mainstream press has not reported the leak even if to strenuously deny it.

That is hopeless logic.
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#64 George Rowell

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 07:10 AM

View PostJ-CA, on 19 May 2019 - 10:32 PM, said:

Her endorsement of this is right up there with her endorsement of Jill Stein in terms of credibility building..
You have missed the point. This is important news, more important than Trumps lunch or Melania's dress yet it has not been reported even as a denial. The idea with a free press is to report all news not censor it.
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#65 AnBr

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 08:46 AM

The better question is why do you have to keep resorting to the fringes to support your viewpoint? This is grasping at straws to support your conformation bias. Find out about Sarandon and you will see why you will get little traction with people here using her.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#66 LFC

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 10:57 AM

View PostGeorge Rowell, on 20 May 2019 - 07:06 AM, said:

So your logic is that anybody who does not agree with you is a whack job, right?

No, and that comeback is the same type of thing that Faux News viewers would say. Please, you're much better than that.

Susan Sarandon is mocked because of whackjob things she has said in the past. Think of her like you would the worst of the climate change deniers. After being spectacularly off in the weeds time and again you write them off. When they say that they are being dismissed without engagement they are absolutely correct but of course they earned that dismissal. There's a point where it's simply not worth doing yet another round of research to find out if a repeated crank is finally on solid ground. There are too many cranks spouting too many crazy things.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#67 Probabilistic

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 11:44 AM

View PostGeorge Rowell, on 20 May 2019 - 07:06 AM, said:

So your logic is that anybody who does not agree with you is a whack job, right?
...
That is hopeless logic.

That is infallible logic and you're a whack job if you disagree.

I'll quote you an authority on this topic.

Carlin said:

anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac

And since I've mentioned Carlin then why not...

https://youtu.be/JmQDoldiHjk

#68 AnBr

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 12:40 PM

Besides the fact that she IS a whack job, she is just an actress after all. We should listen to her as an authority on such matters because... ?
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#69 George Rowell

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 12:49 PM

Truth vanishes in a cloud of poison gas
A huge international news story broke last week, but I doubt you will hear about it anywhere else. It seems very likely that the decision we, France and the USA made in April 2018 to bomb Syria was based on a mistake as big as the fictional weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in 2003.
The Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), the international body which examines alleged incidents of the use of poison gas, has just confirmed to me that a devastating leaked document from its Dutch HQ is genuine.
The document, written by one of the OPCW’s most experienced investigators, shows that it is highly unlikely that gas canisters found at the scene of an alleged poison gas attack in Douma, Syria, were actually dropped from helicopters – as has been widely believed and claimed. The claim is crucial to the case for bombing Syria. A copy of the leaked document can be found on my blog on Mail Online.
Yet the OPCW’s official report on the event made no mention of any such doubts. What is going on? The OPCW is a valuable organisation, containing many fine people, with a noble purpose, but has it been placed under pressure, or even hijacked, by political forces which seek a justification for military intervention in Syria?
Given that a decision between war or peace, affecting the whole planet, could one day hang on its judgments, I think the world is entitled to an inquiry into what is happening behind its closed doors.

Peter Hitchens Dailymail UK

https://www.dailymai...atastrophe.html
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#70 LFC

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 01:28 PM

The Daily Mail isn't exactly known as a paragon of journalism so I looked up a bit about Hitchens. He wrote multiple anti-vax articles (and still justifies listening to Andrew Wakefield), is a gay basher, is against birth control, thought intelligent design was worthy of a scientific debate, doesn't believe addiction is a real thing, and so on. To put it more succinctly this guy is definitely a crank.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#71 Traveler

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 01:40 PM

George, that is not insignificant news. Sorry if it doesn't surprise me all that much. If at all like me, many folks here have burnout syndrome for anything Syria. As well as Greenwald burnout syndrome. Looks like Glen was right after all.

But in the larger scheme of things here stateside, this is pretty low on the whogivesafuck meter.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#72 Traveler

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 01:41 PM

View PostLFC, on 20 May 2019 - 01:28 PM, said:

The Daily Mail isn't exactly known as a paragon of journalism so I looked up a bit about Hitchens. He wrote multiple anti-vax articles (and still justifies listening to Andrew Wakefield), is a gay basher, is against birth control, thought intelligent design was worthy of a scientific debate, doesn't believe addiction is a real thing, and so on. To put it more succinctly this guy is definitely a crank.
LFC, all true. But OFCW is seriously legit.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#73 Probabilistic

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 01:44 PM

View PostGeorge Rowell, on 20 May 2019 - 12:49 PM, said:

Peter Hitchens Dailymail UK

The wrong brother died.

#74 AnBr

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 03:21 PM

This is comes across as someone pushing his pet conspiracy theory and getting frustrated when it is roundly rejected when there are far more important issues and far more immediate dangers to be addressed. Time to let it go here.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#75 George Rowell

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 08:42 PM

The real issue is the great silence in the Press.
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#76 baw1064

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 09:35 PM

The real issue is that pretty much every country, faction, and movement in the ME is evil and dishonest. So the chemical attack could be real, or it could be fabricated. Either possibility is plausible, and it's pretty much impossible to tell, given that nobody has any incentive to be honest.

What should be our response? nothing.
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#77 George Rowell

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Posted 21 May 2019 - 10:47 PM

Traveler, my posts have always been concerned about manipulation by the media, especially with AI on the horizon. I hear what you are saying about America's problems and this may be a small beep to you but the underlying problem, the media, is in my consideration a huge issue for average people. Frankly it scares me. There is now the means to rule by creating a false reality.

Try finding the MSN link below with google, startpage, duckduckgo. I do not think you will not get much luck.

http://www.msn.com/e...ions/ar-AABxGRO

The press are not teasing the truth out any more! Apart from the Dailymail article, which is a valid source, the only other reports have come from FARS, RT, Reddit, Zerohedge, etc.. In fact the above report was originally from FARS!
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#78 Traveler

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 07:11 AM

George, all very valid concerns. Indeed, nobody picked up on this except the Grauniad. Shame we have so much other bullshit to plow through these days that it falls off everyone's radar. Thanks for the link.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#79 George Rowell

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 08:12 AM

View PostLFC, on 20 May 2019 - 10:57 AM, said:

No, and that comeback is the same type of thing that Faux News viewers would say. Please, you're much better than that.

Susan Sarandon is mocked because of whackjob things she has said in the past. Think of her like you would the worst of the climate change deniers. After being spectacularly off in the weeds time and again you write them off. When they say that they are being dismissed without engagement they are absolutely correct but of course they earned that dismissal. There's a point where it's simply not worth doing yet another round of research to find out if a repeated crank is finally on solid ground. There are too many cranks spouting too many crazy things.

View PostLFC, on 20 May 2019 - 10:57 AM, said:

No, and that comeback is the same type of thing that Faux News viewers would say. Please, you're much better than that.

Susan Sarandon is mocked because of whackjob things she has said in the past. Think of her like you would the worst of the climate change deniers. After being spectacularly off in the weeds time and again you write them off. When they say that they are being dismissed without engagement they are absolutely correct but of course they earned that dismissal. There's a point where it's simply not worth doing yet another round of research to find out if a repeated crank is finally on solid ground. There are too many cranks spouting too many crazy things.

View PostLFC, on 20 May 2019 - 10:57 AM, said:

No, and that comeback is the same type of thing that Faux News viewers would say. Please, you're much better than that.

Susan Sarandon is mocked because of whackjob things she has said in the past. Think of her like you would the worst of the climate change deniers. After being spectacularly off in the weeds time and again you write them off. When they say that they are being dismissed without engagement they are absolutely correct but of course they earned that dismissal. There's a point where it's simply not worth doing yet another round of research to find out if a repeated crank is finally on solid ground. There are too many cranks spouting too many crazy things.
LFC, I agree with your reasoning in the last para. To quote Traveler the press is supposed to tease out the truth, but I believe the press/media are actually the problem. The OPCW leak is huge news but has had zero mainstream coverage, likewise the TV producer of the BBC Douma bombings was stonewalled when he said everything was staged. I mean this is the guy who would know. His documentary was used as the basis for the UK,US and French missile attacks on Syrian army bases.

It sucks but you have to listen to these cranks and tease the truth out yourself. Somewhere in the noise there is truth.

It does not help and has not helped but I have to smile because most of my work for the last two decades has been sucking digits out of the noise using overlays, weighting, and probability algorithms. Electronic noise is fairly predictable, however overlay two sequences of chaos and you simply get double the chaos. Looking at a recent news report is like looking at a single noisy point. But that point is actually part of a line and you cannot understand it without analyzing the whole line. That is what you have to do: which brings me back to my job. You may be in deep doubt about a single point, but put 10, 000 more points in to form a line and the data becomes a certainty.
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#80 AnBr

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 01:42 PM

Don't think that anyone here gives the press a pass. Look through these forums and you will example after example of spotlighting failures of the fourth estate. Hell, even the name of these forums should give you a clue. As noted there are just too many more important failures that we are having to deal with the consequences from that it is a fool's errand to try and tease out what has little to do with the most urgent things we currently need to address. As Baw said, it could be real, or fabricated and if real who is most likely responsible. Obama was right to be slow getting more engaged in yet one more hot spot in the ME. Using fringe and other dubious sources as "proof" only undermines your own credibility in these days of disinformation and conspiracy theories. Putin wants the West to be feeding on disinformation.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937





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