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Former UK ambassador says Syrian Chemical Attacks were Staged - BBC interview.


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#1 George Rowell

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 12:47 AM

https://www.youtube....h?v=s1hzL9dXX8s

First General Shaw ex-head of the SAS, then General (Baron) West Ex- head of British army and military intelligence. Then Peter Ford the ex-ambassador to Syria. Am I mistaken or do these 3 ex-government guys have the highest credentials? The head of the UK army (and intelligence), the head of the SAS and the ambassador to Syria, all contesting the White-hall and White-house anti-Assad narrative.


Here is ex UK ambassador to Syria Peter Ford talking to (destroying would be a better word) the BBC chappie.


Former Syrian UK Ambassador

-----I don’t think Assad is in the least worried that the inspectors will find out his guilt because he is probably not guilty, at least on this occasion. I mean if we can engage our brain as well as our emotions here, not be stampeded by those videos which are described as being unverified but which by dint of being repeated, over and over and over again, come to acquire a spurious credibility, we have to ask ourselves what are the sources of the information on which we are in this stampede to war are two fold, and I am sorry but the media are falling down on the job in investigating this. The sources are the Syria American Medical Society which is a pro-Islamist propaganda outfit based in the United States funded by the CIA ----Interrupted by BBC--.

BBC interviewer
Are you saying these factors have been staged and people have not died, haven’t been gassed?

Ambassador
Yes, Yes, in all probability the incidents have been staged. Come on we know how easy it is to fake images, anybody could stage those, and then the second source is supposed to be the so-called first responders, in this case they are the white helmets which is another pro-Islamist jihadi propaganda outfit who – interrupted – Please let me finish. Please let me finish with this important point. The witnesses to these terrible events are people who have themselves been involved in beheading, literally picking up the body parts, and we chose to give credence to testimony from these alleged first responders – interruption by BBC interviewer--.

Ambassador
The BBC does not allow questions of important detail to be addressed – interrupted again ---

BBC
We have a short period of time, I am trying to probe what you are saying that the point is that surely that Assad's reputation is already dented, what would be in the interests of people to stage these events.

Ambassador
Is that not obvious, a child can see the intention would be to produce the hysteria and now the military action that we are on the point of taking, risking our own safety. What the jihadis have done is jerk our leash and thankfully for one, I think it is pretty disgusting that we are allowing ourselves to have our own leash jerked by these Islamist fanatics, this is what is going on. And ask yourself, how does it profit Assad, please engage your brain. Please ask yourself how has Assad benefited from all this mayhem, in fact it has already rebounded against him, why would he do such a thing when he was already winning the battle for eastern Ghouta, which was virtually over, why would he choose this moment to do the one thing that would guarantee to snatch defeat for him from the jaws of victory?

BBC
Thank you very much for joining us ---



Two things puzzle me. One is how the media is allowed to accept unsubstantiated reports by jihadists. The other is why good people believe them. It has got to be group think, or as my aunt said, something in the water.
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#2 J-CA

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 09:03 AM

You should totally listen to this Ford guy because he definitely doesn't have any vested interest in spreading this view.
https://www.telegrap...ad-lobby-group/

Quote

A former British ambassador to Syria who appeared on the BBC to defend the Assad regime had already become a director of a lobby group run by the dictator’s father in law.
...
This was founded by Fawaz Akhras, a London-based cardiologist whose daughter Asma is married to President Assad, and is closely linked to the regime, frequently accused of acting as its mouthpiece in the west.
...

Last year Mr Ford wrongly blamed opposition forces for an attack on a UN aid convoy when an investigation proved it was either Russian or Syrian Government aircraft.
The British Syrian Society’s accounts do not show whether Mr Forde receives any payment or remuneration for his role.
However, the society has been mired in controversy in recent years over its role in providing support for President Assad, with a string of senior British figures resigning from its board.
It was accused last year of running a propaganda event in Damascus which was supported by Syrian government officials.
In 2012 Sir Andrew Green, another former British ambassador to Syria and then co-chairman of the society, quit after emails showed Dr Akhras had advised Assad on how to rebut evidence of civilians apparently being tortured.
Dr Akhras used a private email channel to the Syrian leader to offer advice on how the regime should handle criticism of its suppression of the opposition uprising, including how to counter video footage appearing to show the torture of children.

Like shooting fish in a barrel here.

And again, the entire argument presented by this guy just comes back to questioning Assad's motivation, not any evidence.
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#3 J-CA

    Probably in one of my drunken stupors..

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 09:14 AM

View PostGeorge Rowell, on 04 January 2019 - 12:47 AM, said:

Two things puzzle me. One is how the media is allowed to accept unsubstantiated reports by jihadists. The other is why good people believe them. It has got to be group think, or as my aunt said, something in the water.
And one more thing, the claim being made above is not about who is responsible but rather an accusation that the entire event was staged. There is substantiation that something actually happened, a UN agency released a report with physical evidence of an attack.
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#4 Traveler

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 09:37 AM

Amazing how supposedly respectable folks are so willing to sell their souls. Thanks.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
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#5 George Rowell

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 09:49 AM

View PostJ-CA, on 04 January 2019 - 09:03 AM, said:

You should totally listen to this Ford guy because he definitely doesn't have any vested interest in spreading this view.
https://www.telegrap...ad-lobby-group/


Like shooting fish in a barrel here.

And again, the entire argument presented by this guy just comes back to questioning Assad's motivation, not any evidence.

Well done, you found a hit piece against former ambassador Ford. In case you do not know there is an information war happening. I expect all former high rank government officials who do not agree with the current US narrative have hit pieces against them too. A lot of long term ambassadors probably have extensive links to their former posts. Nothing unusual there and even if he did sign on openly to the group because he saw flaws in western policy, so what?

Did you notice the Telegraph was forced to retract part of the story. Here it is:-

CLARIFICATION: This article's headline originally stated that Mr Ford had 'quietly' taken the job as a director of the British Syrian Society. In fact, Mr Ford has never sought to hide his position as this could have implied and the headline has been amended. We are also happy to clarify that Mr Ford receives no remuneration or other material benefit from his directorship of the Society, or from the positions he espouses on the subject of Syria.
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#6 George Rowell

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 09:55 AM

View PostTraveler, on 04 January 2019 - 09:37 AM, said:

Amazing how supposedly respectable folks are so willing to sell their souls. Thanks.
I doubt he has sold anything. See the Telegraph retraction below.

CLARIFICATION: This article's headline originally stated that Mr Ford had 'quietly' taken the job as a director of the British Syrian Society. In fact, Mr Ford has never sought to hide his position as this could have implied and the headline has been amended. We are also happy to clarify that Mr Ford receives no remuneration or other material benefit from his directorship of the Society, or from the positions he espouses on the subject of Syria.
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#7 George Rowell

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 10:01 AM

View PostTraveler, on 04 January 2019 - 09:37 AM, said:

Amazing how supposedly respectable folks are so willing to sell their souls. Thanks.
Another point. Are you implying that former ambassador Ford is lying. I think that is extreme.
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#8 George Rowell

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 10:03 AM

View PostJ-CA, on 04 January 2019 - 09:03 AM, said:

And again, the entire argument presented by this guy just comes back to questioning Assad's motivation, not any evidence.
Absolutely. So far we have not just 3 random government bods who have an axe to grind, we have Baron West the former head of the army and military intelligence as well as General Shaw as well as the former Syrian ambassador. They clearly believe Assad did not do it. The major 'evidence' comes from the jihadists, so there IS only opinion. In this case it is very appropriate opinion, key people who really know.

There is huge motivation for the jihadists to perform gas attacks and there is huge motivation for the US to believe it to justify US presence in the area.
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#9 J-CA

    Probably in one of my drunken stupors..

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 10:14 AM

View PostGeorge Rowell, on 04 January 2019 - 09:55 AM, said:

I doubt he has sold anything. See the Telegraph retraction below.
Yes, just just joined a lobbying organization chaired by a man that was giving Assad advice on how to handle child-torturing PR.

Ford has an established record of being wrong.
He is pushing something completely outlandish for which he has no evidence.
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#10 J-CA

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 10:19 AM

View PostGeorge Rowell, on 04 January 2019 - 09:55 AM, said:

I doubt he has sold anything. See the Telegraph retraction below.

CLARIFICATION: This article's headline originally stated that Mr Ford had 'quietly' taken the job as a director of the British Syrian Society. In fact, Mr Ford has never sought to hide his position as this could have implied and the headline has been amended. We are also happy to clarify that Mr Ford receives no remuneration or other material benefit from his directorship of the Society, or from the positions he espouses on the subject of Syria.
Maybe you could point us all to the original source that pointed you to the video you posted and then we can all see that organization's disclosure that he is working for this Syrian lobby group. Surely you apply the same journalistic standards to the information you like as you do to the information you don't like?
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#11 George Rowell

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 10:27 AM

View PostJ-CA, on 04 January 2019 - 10:14 AM, said:

Yes, just just joined a lobbying organization chaired by a man that was giving Assad advice on how to handle child-torturing PR.

Ford has an established record of being wrong.
He is pushing something completely outlandish for which he has no evidence.
He openly joined the society and the telegraph admits it is not a paid position. He is likely 'pushing' for the truth. Not all ambassadors are like 'ambassador' Bolton who is a world wide joke, although I will admit that recently he has got his house in order. I do not believe British ambassadors will go against the US narrative unless there were convinced they were right. Let's not go into the child torturing nonsense, that can be twisted any which way and we do not know the real facts.

From Wiki - see what I mean. Stuff like this, who knows, it is an information war.

'In response to Al Jazeera's story, the chief of Syria's medical examiners association, Dr. Akram El-Shaar, denied that Hamza was tortured. El-Shaar said that he supervised the autopsy in Damascus and that the boy did not have any sign of torture. He also claimed that Hamza had been shot in the Daraa riot and that all signs of disfigurement were due to decay'

Edited by George Rowell, 04 January 2019 - 11:00 AM.

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#12 George Rowell

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 10:34 AM

What is more former ambassador Ford has not just recently criticized the current government. He has a history of it, so signing on to the BSS came much later.
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#13 George Rowell

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 10:48 AM

View PostJ-CA, on 04 January 2019 - 10:19 AM, said:

Maybe you could point us all to the original source that pointed you to the video you posted and then we can all see that organization's disclosure that he is working for this Syrian lobby group. Surely you apply the same journalistic standards to the information you like as you do to the information you don't like?
That particular video I saw pop up on the screen after another video ended. I am just not sure. I may have been looking again at Shaws stuff.

I tell you we can both find videos to support our views. There is so much paranoid garbage on line. But in this case there are 3 key people who should know, not just 3 random bods. There is the head of the UK army, a general who was a government adviser and the Syrian ambassador. There is a pattern. Yes they only have opinions, but what opinions, and what superb qualifications they have to make them.
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#14 J-CA

    Probably in one of my drunken stupors..

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 11:29 AM

View PostGeorge Rowell, on 04 January 2019 - 10:27 AM, said:

He is likely 'pushing' for the truth.
So what you are saying is that he has convinced you and now your position is that these attacks were not perpetrated by anyone but rather were staged and never occurred.
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#15 George Rowell

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 12:16 PM

View PostJ-CA, on 04 January 2019 - 11:29 AM, said:

So what you are saying is that he has convinced you and now your position is that these attacks were not perpetrated by anyone but rather were staged and never occurred.
I am not saying that former Ambassador Ford has not convinced me of anything. I have long believed the gas attacks have been highly suspect. When Obama drew the red line I immediately feared the Jihadis would use this to their advantage. I had in fact been waiting for the chemical attacks to start. To me it is all so obvious.

I think we may well have a mix of false flag attacks and fake attacks.

As a matter of interest, whether you think Ford is a patriot or a stooge, you must admit he can think on his feet. He comes right back at you with his logic. Message aside, he is a good debater.
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#16 andydp

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 12:21 PM

View PostGeorge Rowell, on 04 January 2019 - 12:16 PM, said:

I am not saying that former Ambassador Ford has not convinced me of anything. I have long believed the gas attacks have been highly suspect. When Obama drew the red line I immediately feared the Jihadis would use this to their advantage and I had been waiting for the chemical attacks to start. To me it is all so obvious.

I think we may well have a mix of false flag attacks and fake attacks.

My daily visit to the Hamilton68 web site was very instructive. There were daily comments by Russian controlled tweets and sites that all attacked the credibility of the gas attacks. They constantly made mention the White helmets were staging attacks and the like. Hamilton68 is "down" while the revamp the site so I can't point to the specific sites or tweets.
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#17 J-CA

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 12:39 PM

View PostGeorge Rowell, on 04 January 2019 - 12:16 PM, said:

I am not saying that former Ambassador Ford has not convinced me of anything. I have long believed the gas attacks have been highly suspect. When Obama drew the red line I immediately feared the Jihadis would use this to their advantage. I had in fact been waiting for the chemical attacks to start. To me it is all so obvious.

I think we may well have a mix of false flag attacks and fake attacks.
I think endorsing the views of anyone who supports your own position regarding something without assessing the value of that person's actual position is a pretty poor way to go through understanding the world.
Mr. Ford is stating emphatically that he believes the attack was staged. For this to be the case it would require an enormous conspiracy ranging across multiple governments and NGOs with differing interests in the conflict. It is not even within the realms of a credible charge, it is pure fantasy.
https://en.wikipedia...tack#Casualties

Debating is a particular skill, it bears little relationship to honesty or credibility.

You are just being obviously played here.
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#18 George Rowell

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 01:06 PM

View Postandydp, on 04 January 2019 - 12:21 PM, said:

My daily visit to the Hamilton68 web site was very instructive. There were daily comments by Russian controlled tweets and sites that all attacked the credibility of the gas attacks. They constantly made mention the White helmets were staging attacks and the like. Hamilton68 is "down" while the revamp the site so I can't point to the specific sites or tweets.
Hey, they may be right!

I check out RT. Russia does not have much going for it that is good, but when they do you will know about it. The articles on the west are bad bad bad, the articles on China are good, good, good. They dig up all the bad western news, in case you missed it. It seems to be an attempt to lower motivation and sow despondency : and provide food for conspiracy theories.

Western propaganda creates a framework and puts images in it. I think it is much more long term and subtle.
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#19 George Rowell

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 02:08 PM

View PostJ-CA, on 04 January 2019 - 12:39 PM, said:

I think endorsing the views of anyone who supports your own position regarding something without assessing the value of that person's actual position is a pretty poor way to go through understanding the world.
Mr. Ford is stating emphatically that he believes the attack was staged. For this to be the case it would require an enormous conspiracy ranging across multiple governments and NGOs with differing interests in the conflict. It is not even within the realms of a credible charge, it is pure fantasy.
https://en.wikipedia...tack#Casualties

Debating is a particular skill, it bears little relationship to honesty or credibility.

You are just being obviously played here.
That man knows more about Syria than I do and I have no reason to doubt the value of his position.

If the evidence is provided by the white helmets, or doctors embedded with the jihadists then that is not acceptable. NGO's are also questionable if they operate in jihadi controlled areas. And as for government conspiracies, well yes, we are in a propaganda war and Governments do lie.

I hate lying governments. I well remember the first time I caught the UK government lying and for me it was really quite terrible. During the cold war Greville Wynne was arrested in Russia for spying. The home office said that they did not comment on spying charges but in this case they had to declare that Greville Wynne was just an innocent business man, not a spy. That is it. Sounds innocuous enough but it meant that from then on nobody could trust the diplomatic word of the foreign office. They had broken the golden rule and I was appalled. The government went on to weaponized the Wynne affair as a propaganda tool. No, neither have I any illusions that Nato countries would conspire to lie, none at all, FANTASTIC as it may seem. Or any other country for that matter.

As far as debating skill I did say 'message aside'. I am not talking about his honesty or lack of it at all, just adding in passing that the guy is smart and logical. It was in no way intended to support my argument.
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#20 Traveler

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 02:14 PM

Everyone lies. Its up to the press and us readers to tease out the truth. Generally we do a half decent job. Witness this board. Everyone here is pretty up on the real news. It's those items at the periphery that get distorted. Bellingcat did a bang up job in Ukraine, pretty much demolishing the entire Russian narrative. No reason to they were so off the mark in Syria.

That said, jihadis are of such a sheer pathological mindset that it is quite possible that they would run false flag ops.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire





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