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2020 Presidential & Congressional Elections


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#541 JackD

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 12:02 PM

Yeah, it's my Illinois too.

#542 LFC

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 01:56 PM

Here's a longish discussion of Andrew Yang and how his project to change the world didn't pan out so well. The piece notes that he's campaigning with some of the same ideas so the question is whether or not he actually knows how to deliver.

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Andrew Yang spent six years as an evangelist for how startups could transform American cities, collecting accolades from the White House, delivering TED-style talks, and starring in documentaries.

All of that made him feel terrible.

That’s because, while the award committees might not have known it, Yang, now a Democratic candidate for president, knew that he didn’t really deserve the applause.

“It’s a very hard thing to admit to oneself,” Yang told Recode. He had gotten it wrong.

Yang says today that he quit Venture for America, his attempt to transform cities like Baltimore by spreading the startup gospel, because he realized that startups could never create enough jobs to make up for all those that robots are predicted to displace.

But that’s not the whole story: Yang’s nonprofit is also struggling to reshape the startup ecosystem at any real scale and is falling far short of its original goal to create 100,000 jobs, according to interviews with over a dozen VFA fellows, current and former employees, and former board members. And even as the organization has pivoted away from the jobs goal and more toward fellows’ experiences, almost half of them no longer live in the cities where they were originally placed.

And so Yang’s record at VFA raises questions about whether he is similarly over-prioritizing marketing and setting unrealistic expectations in his presidential campaign.

For instance, Yang himself admits that the milestone of 100,000 jobs at the core of his pitch was not a realistic target. VFA today has not created even 4,000 jobs.

“In order for organizations to have a very high ceiling, you need to set the goal very, very aggressively,” Yang said.

Yang is running for the Democratic nomination not only on his doomsday vision of a automation-driven apocalypse, but also on these years at Venture for America, which places college seniors at startups like Teach for America does in schools. And while VFA fellows deeply admire him personally, he did not manage to build the philanthropic juggernaut to revitalize urban America that he once promised he would.

It might be easy to dismiss VFA as some miniscule project by a joke presidential candidate. But how VFA fared matters because Yang’s candidacy is based on similar marketing and promises — such as Universal Basic Income and “Human-Centered Capitalism” — and on his professed background as a successful entrepreneur. And he is almost certain to qualify for the first presidential debate next month. Another way to look at it: He is actually in the top half of the Democratic field with his consistent 1 percent in national polls.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#543 LFC

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 02:05 PM

Vox compares Bernie Sanders's message of socialism with Liz Warren's. The upshot is that Sanders claims to be like FDR, who was apparently quite antisocialist, while Warren is much more like FDR. Sanders is also painted as wanting to wage a clear class war. Warren is more technocratic.

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Sanders’s embrace of the “democratic socialism” label does not mean he supports nationalizing large chunks of the American economy (as one might expect from an avowed socialist). His actual policy platform is fairly similar to self-described “capitalist” Elizabeth Warren’s, a slate of welfare state reforms that more closely resemble policies of other advanced democracies than an ambitious scheme for true socialism.

What the label signals, instead, is who Sanders is against. “Democratic socialism” in Sanders’s definition is a species of social democratic populism that pits the American people against a corrupt elite class that must be defeated outright. This emphasis on class antagonism, on the perfidies of the elite and their threat to American democracy, is what defines Sanders’s vision.

President Obama and other Democrats in his mold have tried to bridge divides between citizens, arguing that more unites than divides us. Sanders wants to emphasize a division: the split between the one percent of “oligarchs” and the remaining 99 percent of Americans. He represents a kind of class politics unusual among Democratic 2020 candidates — with the exception of Elizabeth Warren, whose speeches often hit similar themes from a less avowedly anti-capitalist perspective.


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Sanders’s use of FDR as a model in the speech is telling. Roosevelt, the scion of a wealthy New York political dynasty, was quite famously not a socialist; indeed, the New Deal was developed to stave off socialist sentiment in the United States, meant to tame capitalism so America’s workers wouldn’t attempt to overthrow it. Sanders chose to identify his “democratic socialism” not with any historical socialists, but with a liberal opponent of socialism.

So is there anything that makes Sanders distinctive? Or is he just another liberal Democrat with radical branding?

The answer, if you read the speech closely, is “yes.” But the difference is not about specific policies; it’s about enemies and allies. Sanders’s political vision, as given in his speech, centers on a binary between greedy oligarchs and the virtuous people who are coming together to fight them.

“In the year 2019, the United States and the rest of the world face two very different political paths,” Sanders said. He continues:

Quote

On one hand, there is a growing movement towards oligarchy and authoritarianism in which a small number of incredibly wealthy and powerful billionaires own and control a significant part of the economy and exert enormous influence over the political life of our country. On the other hand, in opposition to oligarchy, there is a movement of working people and young people who, in ever-increasing numbers, are fighting for justice.

“Democratic socialism,” for Sanders, is about creating a “political revolution” that gives voice to the second group — by sticking it to the first.

Sanders’s vision is to attack the corrupt elite by getting ordinary people involved in politics. It is less a socialist wonk agenda aimed at overthrowing capitalism than it is an antagonistic theory of how politics works, founded on the socialist vision that class struggle is the fundamental engine of politics.

If we wanted to quibble about terminology, I’d say this approach is less “democratic socialist” than it is “social democratic.” But the “socialist” label is core to Sanders’s identity — both as a matter of branding and his own political past. Decades ago, Sanders used to be much more radical. In 1976, he gave an interview endorsing “the public ownership of utilities, banks, and major industries.” He has spent his life marinating in anti-capitalist political ideas and communities; his political vision and language reflect that.

This is what separates him even from Warren, whose rhetoric hits many of the same themes about the threat posed by the greedy rich and the need for a popular movement to oppose them. Warren is a more natural heir to FDR than Sanders — a liberal who explicitly wants to save capitalism from itself, and a product of a left-liberal political tradition rather than a socialist one.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#544 LFC

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 02:58 PM

Pelosi is gearing up the Democratic approach to their broad strategy against the Republicans. To start she's taking on Mitch McConnell. That leaves other Republicans to defend him, try to advocate their own approach to the problems Dems are voting to solve, or hide. Remember how people said the Dems aren't trying to work on things that people want? Bullshit. And Pelosi is making that case. (They ALL need to get out and make that case.)

Quote

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) on Thursday took a shot at Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY).

While speaking to reporters at her weekly press conference, Pelosi presented a list of bills that the Democratically-controlled House had passed.

“Leader McConnell seems to take great pride in calling himself the Grim Reaper,” Pelosi explained. “It’s part of his political campaign, it’s part of the pride he takes as leader of the Senate.”

“None of these things are going to be passed, they won’t even be voted on,” she said of the list of bills, which included the legislation on Dreamers, equal rights, gun violence prevention, violence against women, climate and paycheck fairness.

“What is it about Mitch McConnell and the Republicans in Congress that they do not want to respond to what is so popular across the board in our country?” the Speaker later asked.

Posted Image
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#545 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 04:24 PM

On that question, anyone have a question they want me to bring up with Rep. Torres-Small [1] when I talk to her Saturday?

[1] She doesn't hyphenate -- not the convention here -- but I figured to save you gringos the confusion.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#546 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 02:02 AM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 13 June 2019 - 04:24 PM, said:

She doesn't hyphenate -- not the convention here -- but I figured to save you gringos the confusion.

"You gringos" rather than "us gringos"? Are you of Hispanic ancestry yourself?
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

Only Satan can rebuke sin. The righteous don't know enough.

God is not dead. He was merely voted out of office.

You can do anything with anybody if you just save them the trouble of thinking.

#547 LFC

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 03:25 PM

The Trump delusion is alive and well. And by well I mean strongly sick.

Quote

After heated denials from President Donald Trump, his campaign this week finally admitted that yes, their internal March polling did show former Vice President Joe Biden handily beating the President in key battleground states. But, they insist, Trump has made huge gains since then.

Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale told ABC News that the polls reported on last month were “ancient.”

“Since then, we have seen huge swings in the President’s favor across the 17 states we have polled, based on the policies now espoused by the Democrats,” he said. “For example, the plan to provide free health care to illegal immigrants results in an 18-point swing toward President Trump.”

Trump had been angrily punching back at anyone who mentions the poll to him, including George Stephanopoulos during a recent interview when the President insisted that “those polls don’t exist.” As recently as Friday morning, Trump told the “Fox and Friends” hosts that polls showing him trailing Biden were “incorrect.”

Parscale insisted that Trump was correct to say that the polls aren’t real.

“The President is correct that we have no current polls against defined Democrats – at all – that show him losing in any of the states we have tested. For example, the President leads in Florida by 8 points. He holds leads in all other states we have polled,” Parscale said in his statement to ABC News.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#548 LFC

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 03:27 PM

If anybody is interested here is the lineup for the Democratic debates:

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The first night, Wednesday June 26, will feature Sen. Cory Booker (D-NJ), former HUD director Julian Castro, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, Rep. John Delaney (D-MD), Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-HI), Washington Gov. Jay Inslee, Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-MN), former Rep. Beto O’Rouke (D-TX), Rep. Tim Ryan (D-OH) and Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA).

The day after, Sen. Michael Bennet (D-CO), former Vice President Joe Biden, South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg, Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY), Sen. Kamala Harris (D-CA), former Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT), Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-NY), tech entrepreneur Andrew Yang and self-help author Marianne Williamson will take the stage.


Here are more details on the upcoming debate schedule.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#549 LFC

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 03:55 PM

Sara Gideon is Maine's Democratic House Speaker and she's announced she's running against Susan Collins. I'd love to sick Suzie Spineless get punted out of the Senate.

Quote

Maine House Speaker Sara Gideon, a Democrat, is expected to formally announce in the coming weeks that she’s running for Republican Sen. Susan Collins’ seat in 2020, five Democratic sources confirmed to HuffPost.

She will likely launch her campaign shortly after the close of the state’s legislative session on June 19, the three Democratic sources in Maine and two national Democratic strategists said.

Defeating Collins, the Maine moderate who infuriated liberals with her vote to confirm Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court, is key to Democratic hopes of winning back control of the Senate in 2020. Gideon is a top-tier recruit for the race and is expected to have at least the tacit backing of establishment groups like the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee and EMILY’s List.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#550 AnBr

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 11:15 PM

Eugene Robinson: We don’t need 23 presidential candidates. There’s another important role to fill

Quote

Dear Democratic presidential candidates: I know all 23 of you want to run against President Trump, but only one will get that opportunity. If you truly believe your own righteous rhetoric, some of you ought to be spending your time and energy in another vital pursuit — winning control of the Senate.

I’m talking to you, John Hickenlooper of Colorado, who would have a good chance of beating incumbent Republican Cory Gardner. I’m talking to you, Gov. Steve Bullock of Montana, who could knock off GOP incumbent Steve Daines. I’m even talking to you, Beto O’Rourke, who would have a better chance than any other Texas Democrat against veteran Republican John Cornyn.

And I’m talking to you, too, Stacey Abrams of Georgia, even though you haven’t jumped in. You came within a whisker of being elected governor, and you have a national profile that would bring in a tsunami of campaign funds. You could beat Republican David Perdue — and acquire real power to translate your stirring eloquence into concrete action.

As the Republican Party has long understood, it’s all about power. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) could not care less about lofty words and high ideals. Coldly and methodically, he has used his power to block widely supported progressive measures such as gun control, to enact a trickle-down economic agenda that favors the wealthy and to pack the federal bench with right-wing judges whom we’ll be stuck with for decades.

“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#551 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 15 June 2019 - 07:06 AM

View PostRich T Bikkies, on 14 June 2019 - 02:02 AM, said:

"You gringos" rather than "us gringos"? Are you of Hispanic ancestry yourself?

No, but I'm not confused either.

The derivative use is for people who insist on making anything Latino over to suit their cultural biases. For instance, turning Mexican cuisine bland.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#552 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 15 June 2019 - 12:13 PM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 13 June 2019 - 04:24 PM, said:

On that question, anyone have a question they want me to bring up with Rep. Torres-Small [1] when I talk to her Saturday?

Following up: She brought up a couple of things she's working on that don't make headlines, including
  • More MDs graduating than there are residencies. Federal funding, in particular for primary care, is necessary there.
  • Patching the "we didn't see that coming" efforts of the current (and probably some future) administrations to approve worthless "insurance" that doesn't, "education," likewise etc.
  • Funding needed border resources that can't be diverted to vanity walls. Stuff like, you know, feeding people held in custody. Processing paperwork. Not dumping asylum seekers thousands of miles from their hearings (props to my mayor for bringing that one up.)

The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#553 golden_valley

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Posted 15 June 2019 - 12:37 PM

Yeah the media pays little to no attention to those things. I don't know what Congress can do to bring attention to these kinds of issues and to the many bills they've passed that will not even get a hearing in the Senate. It is outrageous that no media is interested in covering this travesty.

#554 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 15 June 2019 - 03:23 PM

View Postgolden_valley, on 15 June 2019 - 12:37 PM, said:

Yeah the media pays little to no attention to those things. I don't know what Congress can do to bring attention to these kinds of issues and to the many bills they've passed that will not even get a hearing in the Senate. It is outrageous that no media is interested in covering this travesty.

That would be partisan.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#555 baw1064

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Posted 15 June 2019 - 03:38 PM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 13 June 2019 - 04:24 PM, said:

...Rep. Torres-Small [1] when I talk to her Saturday?

[1] She doesn't hyphenate -- not the convention here -- but I figured to save you gringos the confusion.

I'm getting way into the weeds here, but wouldn't it depend on where the names come from? If Torres is her last name, and Small is her husband's, then I'd say if it should be hyphenated. But she might be following the convention in Spanish in which your legal name includes your father's family name, followed by your mother's family name [1] (i.e. Torres would be her father's family name and Small her mother's). In that case it's typically not hyphenated--although I remember seeing one scientific journal article from Mexico in which all the authors hyphenated their last names (in Spain that's never done).

[1] Therefore, in Spanish speaking countries, "What was your mother's maiden name?" would be the Worst.Internet.Security.Question.Ever!
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#556 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 15 June 2019 - 03:56 PM

The order of names historically is based on the parents' relative status. The grandchild of a duke and a prince would take the prince's name regardless of the intervening details. And, yes, this gets silly -- Spanish pedigrees were splendid works of fiction frequently designed to "prove" Christian ancestry back all the way to Adam.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#557 Traveler

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 10:57 AM

Good news.

Quote


In an NBC-Wall Street Journal poll, some 52% reported being very uncomfortable about Trump and an additional 10% had some reservations. The combined 62% compared with 37% who said they were enthusiastic or comfortable with a Trump vote. The negative response about Trump was up 3 percentage points from a poll conducted in late April and early May.

That is a 25% spread. Nice. Are voters waking up?
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#558 indy

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 03:37 PM

I'm sure Trump is busy looking into Putin's polling firms.

#559 MSheridan

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 04:54 PM

A few scattershot thoughts on recent posts in this thread.

First, of course when you are a practical politician you say you'll reach across the aisle. As mentioned above, it is necessary to actually get work done. What most people complain about is Biden's seeming or at least avowed belief that the Republicans in Congress will actually take his proffered olive branch. I have doubts about that myself. Too many of them are outrage mongers. Any who might otherwise be reasonable are cowed by the majority.

Second, of course some of the Berniebots are bots. I didn't think that was especially new news, at least on this board. I'm almost sure I remember talking about it here before, although those conversations are probably a couple years old. Sure, Sanders does have plenty of diehard fans, but a lot of the most obnoxious ones online aren't real. Just as quite a few of the most obnoxious Clintonistas and Obamabots back in 2008 weren't real. I couldn't guess as to how many are Russian and how many designed here at home, but ratfucking elections has come a long, long way.

Third, it wasn't Sanders running that hurt Clinton. Anyone who still thinks she would have won easily against Trump if only she hadn't faced a moderately challenging primary wasn't paying close enough attention. Regardless of what anyone here thinks about Hillary Clinton, too many people in this nation really didn't like her. 2016 wasn't primarily a pro-Trump victory, it was primarily an anti-Clinton defeat. Had Clinton been more popular with the Democratic electorate at large, Sanders could never have caught fire in the first place.

Fourth, don't joke about a Sanders independent run. That's not funny in the slightest. It takes only a modest levee to predetermine the course of the election in a two party system such as our own. Any time the contest has more than two contenders with broad name recognition, that candidate wins who is most opposed to the goals of the least favored candidate. The best thing Sanders did last time was to run as a Democrat rather than as a third party candidate, a la Nader. Or Perot - remember that Bill Clinton would never have won the first time without Ross Perot spoiling the election for Bush senior. Or Teddy Roosevelt, who arguably got Democrat Woodrow Wilson elected in 1912 when Teddy split the Republican Party by running as a Progressive (1912 was the only time a third party Presidential candidate managed to come in second, but second ain't first). When you split the big tent, you get rained on.

#560 Rue Bella

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 06:13 PM

https://www.gq.com/s...fires-pollsters


Quote

Trump Campaign Fires Its Own Pollsters After Leaked Polls Show Him Losing
Internal pollsters found Trump trailing Biden in 11 states, including double-digit gaps in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

Donald Trump's reelection campaign is in rough shape for a sitting president, according to its own internal polling. A 17-state poll conducted in March showed the president trailing former vice president and Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden in 11 states. ABC News obtained some of the actual data that showed "a double-digit lead for Biden in Pennsylvania 55-39 and Wisconsin 51-41 and had Biden leading by seven points in Florida. In Texas, a Republican stronghold, the numbers showed the president only leading by two points."

The Trump campaign responded with an odd mash-up of denials. Trump told his aides to claim that the polls, which were conducted in late March, didn't actually exist. When Trump's 2020 campaign manager Brad Parscale was confronted with the actual numbers by ABC News, he said, "These leaked numbers are ancient, in campaign terms, from months-old polling that began in March before two major events had occurred: the release of the summary of the Mueller report exonerating the President, and the beginning of the Democrat candidates defining themselves with their far-left policy message." Trump himself called the numbers "phony polling information" and asserted that his polling was actually "the strongest I’ve ever been."

And, now, the campaign has, according to the New York Times, fired three of its five pollsters to minimize the chance of damaging leaks in the future. That includes the Polling Company, previously run by Kellyanne Conway, Trump's former campaign manager and current White House counselor. The campaign also fired Adam Geller, who worked for former New Jersey governor Chris Christie, and Michael Baselice, a pollster for former California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, both of whom were on Trump's 2016 campaign. Only pollsters Tony Fabrizio and John McLaughlin are staying on the 2020 campaign for now.

What is wrong with these people? ~ PG

California Secession - Let my people go!





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