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2020 Presidential & Congressional Elections


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#521 AnBr

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 12:41 AM

View PostHockeyDon, on 11 June 2019 - 03:02 PM, said:

I don't doubt that it's nonsense to believe that Republicans will actually change.

That doesn't change my stance that it's more strategically sound to act as if it's important to work with them and act as if the goal is to represent every voter in the country. It's extremely shallow thinking to try to force him into a "deplorables" moment.

What's the goal of these criticisms of Biden? Imagine him changing his stance to, as I put in in my previous post, "Yeah, the Republicans can just fuck off."

Which message is more likely to move the electorate? Is it "We don't want or need any Republicans" or is it "We feel we can work with everyone to make a better future for all Americans?"

I know there are plenty of people pushing this idea that swing voters don't exist. Yet, somehow, Clinton was enough of a decisive figure to enough people that we ended up with President Trump, Inc.

I'm not saying Joe actually believes republicans can actually be worked with. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. (I don't believe so, not that it matters much.) What matters is using the best tactics necessary to take back the White House and Congress. If one of those tactics is to say "We can work with them", then use that tactic.

So much this. I am bit surprised that people here, who I think of as being more politically savvy than the average voter can't see that some of these things are more politic than any real belief. I am sure that Biden realizes the state of the modern Rethug party and know that there is no reasoning with them, but he knows that he must win back the working class that went with tRump last time. These are people naïve enough to believe that both parties are to blame for the dysfunction. These statements often need to be taken with a grain of salt.

I seriously doubt that Biden would waste 6 years like Obama did trying to make concessions in one fruitless attempt after another to compromise with those that will never do so. Trying to win over voters is not the same thing as governance. Evaluate it on the bases of campaigning, not actual belief.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#522 Traveler

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 06:42 AM

I gotta admire Pelosi. Most of the Dem candidates, not so much.

View PostHockeyDon, on 11 June 2019 - 03:02 PM, said:

I don't doubt that it's nonsense to believe that Republicans will actually change. That doesn't change my stance that it's more strategically sound to act as if it's important to work with them and act as if the goal is to represent every voter in the country. It's extremely shallow thinking to try to force him into a "deplorables" moment. What's the goal of these criticisms of Biden? Imagine him changing his stance to, as I put in in my previous post, "Yeah, the Republicans can just fuck off." Which message is more likely to move the electorate? Is it "We don't want or need any Republicans" or is it "We feel we can work with everyone to make a better future for all Americans?" I know there are plenty of people pushing this idea that swing voters don't exist. Yet, somehow, Clinton was enough of a decisive figure to enough people that we ended up with President Trump, Inc. I'm not saying Joe actually believes republicans can actually be worked with. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. (I don't believe so, not that it matters much.) What matters is using the best tactics necessary to take back the White House and Congress. If one of those tactics is to say "We can work with them", then use that tactic.
I am with Don on this. I fail to see how going against Hyde is going to help. Folks, you gotta realize that 50% of abortions are done by 11% that admit they don't use contraception (real number likely higher), and often repeat.

How can you expect even conscientious antiabortion folks to support having their tax dollars fund these abortions on demand? Sure, half of them may be justified, but over 200,000 a year are for women that refuse to take responsibility? I cannot believe Dems are so self centered.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#523 LFC

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 09:55 AM

Looks like the chair of the National Republican Congressional Committee might not have full support of House Republicans as they approach what will likely be a brutally tough election year.

Quote

During a recent closed-door meeting, Rep. Liz Cheney (R-WY) attacked her colleague over the National Republican Congressional Committee’s battle plan to win back the House, Politico reported.

Cheney, the No. 3 Republican in the House, reportedly pounced on Rep. Tom Emmer (R-MN), NRCC chairman, after he questioned if she would continue to add campaign money to the NRCC’s fund. Cheney shot back that she’d already paid her dues and then accused Emmer of “inflating” his own fundraising numbers, in Politico’s words. She also said other Republicans were worried about his direction for taking back the House.

Cheney’s sharp words for the NRCC come just after the campaign arm was criticized for breaking with Republican leadership to attacked Democratic lawmakers for an effort to give themselves a raise, despite the fact that the measure had bipartisan support.


And Liz Cheney is the #3 House Republican? Talk about wingnut welfare. She's been a nothing bomb thrower for ages. Oh, wait. That's exactly the kind of person the GOP wants in their leadership ranks.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#524 LFC

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 09:57 AM

Here's a TPM reader's comments on Joe Biden saying he'd work with Republicans. Much I agree with, some I don't, but it's interesting as we go into this election cycle. (Remember when election cycles really started less than 12 months before Election Day? Good times, good times.)

Quote

I’m simply at a loss as to why otherwise intelligent people are getting “pissed off” at Biden’s statement that Republicans will change course once Trump is gone.

There are a couple of angles to discuss:

First, the statement itself lends itself to boilerplate “I can work with the other side” political statements that we normally see from the more centrist candidates.

Second, going deeper into the idea of whether Republicans can be worked with or cannot be worked with, what is the alternative? There are some absolutely solid facts to indicate that the Dems are not going to have a filibuster proof majority in the senate, starting with a simple look at the senate election map. Dems currently have 47 seats, and the best guess so far is that, if 2020 is a good year and they win the WH, perhaps they might get to 51 seats. 51 is well short of 60. So unless these “pissed off” people are advocating for a further escalation of senate warfare and the elimination of the filibuster entirely, the Republicans will have to be part of the conversation. This reality is a big part of the reason why Bernie Sanders has never written a piece of impactful legislation that became law – he is a true believer in his positions, and is unable to recognize that roughly half the country disagrees with him.

The biggest presidential landslide in modern history was Nixon’s 1972 win, when he won 61% of the vote. And that was unusual. Most elections have the winner in the 52-54% range. Trump “won” in 2016 with just over 46%. For any of the progressives on the left to believe that all of a sudden the roughly 50% of the country that at least leans conservative is going to disappear is insanity.

Many of the things that Republicans are supporting right now are diametrically opposed to the things that they supported in years past, such as the issue of free trade that they’ve now jettisoned in favor of Trump’s tariffs. This says to me that they are simply supporting him out of political fear. Once he’s gone, that political fear will not be there. In addition, if he loses in 2020, they will have just been spanked at the polls, which will give them further incentive to change their ways. While there are certainly many Republicans on the far right that might actually believe in Trump’s new approach, there are also undoubtedly many that are not comfortable with it and will come back to the middle, at least somewhat.

The reason for the filibuster is not because the majority has wanted to be nice to the minority. It’s because the majority recognizes that they will be the minority at some point in the future. It’s why we give diplomatic immunity – not to protect the other country, but to protect our own people. It’s a basic rule of warfare. And when the clear front runner of the party can get attacked for merely the idea of being able to work with the other side, we’re in a very bad place. Dems criticized republicans for years for not being willing to compromise on anything, and now we’re turning into that which we criticized.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#525 LFC

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 01:10 PM

What the actual f***???!!!

Quote

Former delegate Joe Morrissey won the Democratic primary for a Virginia state senate seat on Tuesday, even after he served months in jail back in 2015 related to his sexual relationship with his 17-year-old secretary when he was 56.

According to the Washington Post, he is now married to the receptionist, fighting to get his law license back and was carried to victory by local support of his legal work in the community.

He easily overcame Democratic state Sen. Rosalyn Dance, even though she had the support of Gov. Ralph Northam, former governor Terry McAuliffe and Sen. Tim Kaine (D-VA). No Republican candidates ran in the GOP primary, so Morrissey will likely win the state senate seat.

It’s not the first time Morrissey has pulled off an improbable win — back in 2015 he won the special election to fill his vacated seat while in his jail cell.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#526 Traveler

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 01:20 PM

View PostLFC, on 12 June 2019 - 09:57 AM, said:

Here's a TPM reader's comments on Joe Biden saying he'd work with Republicans. Much I agree with, some I don't, but it's interesting as we go into this election cycle. (Remember when election cycles really started less than 12 months before Election Day? Good times, good times.)
Says it all. Great post.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#527 Rue Bella

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 01:24 PM

Quote

but over 200,000 a year are for women that refuse to take responsibility?

Who knew there were so many virgin births. :o
What is wrong with these people? ~ PG

California Secession - Let my people go!

#528 LFC

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 01:43 PM

More data on why the Dems should back off from beating the impeachment drums. If I thought it could achieve something substantial I'd support it but there's really not much it will do. Investigating, gathering evidence, and handing it over to the DOJ under a Democratic President, however, might accomplish quite a bit.

Quote

One big takeaway is that the public does not support impeaching the President: 61% to 33% say Congress should not begin the process of impeaching the President. That obviously includes lots of Republicans who are firmly against it. Democrats support it, unsurprisingly, but there’s significant opposition even there. 62% of Democrats favor but 31% oppose. African-Americans are the only demographic group that supports impeachment, 63% to 31%.

But that’s not the whole story. American voters overwhelmingly believe a sitting President should be able to face criminal charges while he or she serves as President, just like every other American.

Fully 69% of voters say there should be no de facto immunity from criminal charges while a President is in office. 52% of Republicans agree. And there’s more bad news from President Trump. 57% believe he committed crimes before his inauguration. Voters are split 45% to 45% on whether he’s committed crimes as President. 55% say the Mueller Report did not clear the President of wrongdoing.

The public is much more closely divided about an impeachment inquiry. 48% says yes; 45% say no. But here the question is asked in an ambiguous way. The question was: “Do you think that Congress should investigate to determine whether or not to bring impeachment charges against President Trump, or don’t you think so?” You can interpret that as an impeachment inquiry but it’s just as easily interpreted as general investigations.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#529 AnBr

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 02:31 PM

Sanders slips to 3rd behind Warren in the early state of Nevada

Sure hope that he fails early enough to not screw things up for the Dems as last time.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#530 Beelzebuddy

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 03:06 PM

View PostAnBr, on 12 June 2019 - 02:31 PM, said:

Sanders slips to 3rd behind Warren in the early state of Nevada

Sure hope that he fails early enough to not screw things up for the Dems as last time.
What would keep him from running as an independent if he doesn't win the nomination?
Fear Sells!

Cui bono?

"The real problem of humanity is the following: we have paleolithic emotions; medieval institutions; and god-like technology." - EO Wilson.

"Hell is truth seen too late" - T Hobbes

#531 AnBr

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 03:24 PM

Nothing really, but if he tanks badly in the primary I doubt an independent run will garner a lot of support.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#532 Rue Bella

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 03:36 PM

If he (sanders) wants to run as an independant, the dems need to come up with a simple assertiveness slogan along the lines of Trump is president now because of Sanders. And use it over and over and over again. Who gives a sh*t what the selfish Sanders wants. Let him get his ego gratification elsewhere.
What is wrong with these people? ~ PG

California Secession - Let my people go!

#533 Traveler

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 04:46 PM

The Berniebots were out in force yesterday over on BB. Remarkably obnoxious folks. Apparently very intelligent, but totally deluded. I seriously think they could have been very good bots due to their persistence. Even after I flamed one. Disinformation is out in full force. Bots or not, his supporters are the lowest scum than deplorables. They are too intelligent to claim ignorance. Funny how Dunning Kruger cuts across the entire IQ spectrum.

Edited by Traveler, 13 June 2019 - 08:59 AM.

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#534 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 06:34 PM

Feynmann: you are the easiest one to fool.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
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These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
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#535 AnBr

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 11:25 PM

View PostTraveler, on 12 June 2019 - 04:46 PM, said:

The Berniebots were out in force yesterday over on BB. Remarkably obnoxious folks. Apparently very intelligent, but totally deluded. I seriously think they could have very good bots due to their persistence. Even after I flamed one. Disinformation is out in full force. Bots or not, his supporters are the lowest scum than deplorables. They are too intelligent to claim ignorance. Funny how Dunning Kruger cuts across the entire IQ spectrum.

Don't discount that many of them are probably right-wing/Russian trolls or bots. I have seen may Sanders supporters now realize that the Sarandon solution didn't turn out so well. After all, this is the bust. That is not to say that there are no real deadenders, just that a lot of them are probably as real as as a large chunk of tRump's Twitter followers.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#536 Traveler

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 09:16 AM

That is exactly what I thought. They are too intelligent to be the IRA trolls, so they must be bots. Pretty remarkable.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#537 LFC

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 09:47 AM

View PostTraveler, on 13 June 2019 - 09:16 AM, said:

That is exactly what I thought. They are too intelligent to be the IRA trolls, so they must be bots. Pretty remarkable.

Soooooo you guys are saying that a number of the Berniebots are actually bots? That certainly explains quite a bit. All they have to do is show up in a great enough number to keep the organic Berniebros perpetually righteous, angry, and feeling victimized (i.e. the Faux News model).
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#538 LFC

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 10:57 AM

The Justice Democrats who supported AOC have their first Democratic primary target in mind. Normally I'd be rolling my eyes and saying "WTF?" but I'm not so sure this time. It looks like they may have picked an appropriate target. Even though this is Texass the district is brutally anti-Trump.

Quote

Justice Democrats, the progressive insurgent group that recruited and helped elect Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), has found its first Democratic primary challenger to support during the 2020 cycle.

The group is supporting immigration and human rights attorney Jessica Cisneros in her attempt to unseat Rep. Henry Cuellar (D-TX) in Texas’ 28th Congressional District. Cisneros formally launched her campaign on Thursday with a platform of ending family separation, Medicare for All, the Green New Deal and a rejection of all corporate PAC and lobbyist contributions.

“Our congressman claims to be a Democrat, but he’s voted with Trump nearly 70 percent of the time,”

Cisneros said in her bilingual launch video. “He’s Trump’s favorite Democrat. Henry Cuellar voted to defund sanctuary cities and reproductive health services for women’s health. He’s received an A rating from the NRA. And he’s accepted thousands of dollars from private prisons and the Koch brothers.”

Cuellar, who represents a district where a mere 38.5 percent of the electorate voted for President Donald Trump, has long been considered a target by Justice Democrats, which has pushed more progressive candidates to challenge moderate or establishment-minded Democratic incumbents in safely blue districts.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#539 JackD

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 11:02 AM

Cuellar is a little like Lipinski in Illinois.

#540 LFC

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 11:48 AM

View PostJackD, on 13 June 2019 - 11:02 AM, said:

Cuellar is a little like Lipinski in Illinois.

UGH! I hate having Lipinksi in my Illinois, even a little. (Perhaps I've misunderstood.)
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer





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