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2020 Presidential & Congressional Elections


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#1221 Traveler

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 02:48 PM

View PostAnBr, on 10 November 2019 - 08:40 PM, said:

Late to this party, but the guy has a point about founders being forced to sell stocks every year. Kind of wreaks havoc with typical corporate governance (controlling shares, board seats etc.) Which is why I am totally behind ordinary income for all, progressive brackets, and no stepped up basis at death. While not the revenue generator a wealth tax would bring, it is totally fair. I would like to see his thoughts on that. He wasn't crying about the wealth tax per se. Not a fan of disingenuous memes from either side of the aisle.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#1222 Traveler

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 02:53 PM

View PostLFC, on 12 November 2019 - 05:07 PM, said:

Republicans are panicking over what has happened in Virginia and in particular how badly they've cratered in the suburbs.

Quote

“We need candidates who can run strong campaigns with a conservative agenda that actually people are attracted to and not repelled by,” explained Dick Wadhams, the former state party chair in Colorado. “That may sound trite, but I’d swear sometimes people act like they have never heard such a thing.”
I'll just let that stand there.

ETA: I see DC already pointed this gem out.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#1223 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 03:40 PM

It's so, so worth repeating.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#1224 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 04:14 PM

Quote

“We need candidates who can run strong campaigns with a conservative agenda that actually people are attracted to and not repelled by,” explained Dick Wadhams, the former state party chair in Colorado. “

I know you guys are now all "recovering Republicans" at worst, but can you delve deep into your misspent younger days and recall for me stuff that would make up, say half-a-dozen planks in such a GOP platform?
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

Only Satan can rebuke sin. The righteous don't know enough.

God is not dead. He was merely voted out of office.

You can do anything with anybody if you just save them the trouble of thinking.

#1225 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 05:42 PM

Bear in mind that attraction and repulsion are personal. The Republicans are so dry on actually popular issues that they have to a (very) large extent defined themselves as opposing anything Democrats like -- to the extent of filibustering their own proposals that had been drafted, introduced, and sponsored by Republicans the moment that Democrats showed any sign of support.

On actual policy direction, Democrats are on the popular side of pretty much everything with the exception of a few topics, all of which boil down to bigotry having a grip on 30-40% of the voting population. The bigots aren't welcome in the Democratic Party, and without the bigot vote it's impossible to get either nominated or elected as a Republican because the bigots are at least 60% of the remainder who aren't Democrats. I think you could call that a demographic trap.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#1226 MSheridan

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 05:49 PM

View PostRich T Bikkies, on 13 November 2019 - 04:14 PM, said:

I know you guys are now all "recovering Republicans" at worst, but can you delve deep into your misspent younger days and recall for me stuff that would make up, say half-a-dozen planks in such a GOP platform?

I have never been a Republican and have only voted for a Republican for any office a very, very small number of times (and never on the national stage). But regardless of the lack of persuasiveness Republican ideology has held for me from the 80's onward, there isn't much of their past national playbook that is really useful.
  • They cannot easily claim to be the party of fiscal prudence and balanced budgets when they have been by far the worst offenders throughout my lifetime.
  • Ditto party of small government, and for the same reason.
  • They can no longer claim to be the party of "family values" anywhere but those places where the term is synonymous with patriarchy, sexism, and racism.
  • They still claim to be the party for lower taxes, but everyone who knows anything knows that the lower taxes in question are only for a few. It might be popular to run as a candidate espousing lower taxes for the many, but the private funders who have financed Republican candidates since Citizen United wouldn't gladly finance that.
  • The foreign policy realism of past GOP notables like James Baker and George Schultz is no longer to be found in party doctrine and most Americans don't prioritize foreign policy in their voting decisions anyway.
  • There used to be conservative environmentalists, even Republican environmentalists, but they ceded that territory to the Democrats so long ago that this conservativism is now seen as liberalism.
  • Until recently, they inexplicably had an undeserved reputation as being more pro-veteran and pro-military (related to the whole pro-authoritarian vibe that goes with the "family values" monicker). That reputation still exists, in places, but it has dimmed because they've done less than nothing to back it up.
So this only leaves them with a few things, and they have been pushing them hard:
  • Fake Christianity, ironic in the extreme and doesn't get them anyone they didn't have before because they clearly don't care about the central tenets of the religion they profess to follow.
  • Guns, which is blowing up in their faces.
  • Law and order (authoritarianism, again), which would work a heck of a lot better if the country was not doing better by most metrics than it was in the 90s (although still not as good as it was in the 60s). Even so, we can always count on the right-wing terrorverse to whip up fear. I've met multiple people who simply refused to believe that violent crime was not steeply ascending and that any information to the contrary was not "fake news."
  • Which gets us to disinformation and xenophobia.


#1227 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 10:07 PM

Great post, MS.
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

Only Satan can rebuke sin. The righteous don't know enough.

God is not dead. He was merely voted out of office.

You can do anything with anybody if you just save them the trouble of thinking.

#1228 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 10:09 PM

View PostMSheridan, on 13 November 2019 - 05:49 PM, said:

I have never been a Republican and have only voted for a Republican for any office a very, very small number of times (and never on the national stage). But regardless of the lack of persuasiveness Republican ideology has held for me from the 80's onward, there isn't much of their past national playbook that is really useful.

Great post, MS.
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

Only Satan can rebuke sin. The righteous don't know enough.

God is not dead. He was merely voted out of office.

You can do anything with anybody if you just save them the trouble of thinking.

#1229 LFC

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 12:52 PM

After a major loss in Virginia and a personal loss in Kentucky (not that Trump would ever admit that) Trump and the Republicans are in a panic over early voting in Louisiana.

Quote

President Donald Trump and the RNC are going all in for the gubernatorial runoff in Louisiana this Saturday, spurred on by Democrats’ high turnout during early voting.

According to Politico, the RNC just poured in an additional $1 million in a last minute get-out-the-vote effort. Trump will again stump in the state on Thursday, and Vice President Mike Pence will call into local radio stations on Friday.

After incumbent Gov. Matt Bevin’s ® shocking loss in Kentucky, Trump is loathe to watch another candidate who he endorsed and campaigned aggressively for fall in a red state. Last time, he had to endure the humiliation of Democrat Andy Beshear’s shocking upset just days after he had his arm slung around Bevin at a Kentucky rally.

However, it looks like it’ll be an uphill battle for the President and his preferred candidate, Eddie Rispone. African American turnout bounced from 25 percent in the primaries to 31 percent in early voting for the runoff; Democrats comprised of 46 percent of the early voters, up from 44 percent in the primary.

Most polls have the race very close, giving incumbent Gov. John Bel Edwards (D) a slight edge. Voters will make the final decision this Saturday.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#1230 MSheridan

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 03:07 PM

Bikkies, if you want to see a different opinion, you can check this out over at National Review:

Are Republican Views Really That Unpopular? by Ramesh Ponnuru

Ponnuru is not defending Republican views in this piece (although he mostly shares them)--instead, his point is that they are not as unpopular as they are often framed by the opposition. I'd say he has only about half a point, but despite my disagreement it is a useful reply to your question above from another point of view.

#1231 Traveler

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 03:14 PM

A most unconvincing offering from Ponnuru. He has been remarkably cogent in his recent BB opinions, much to the delight of us on this side of the aisle. At least good articles in last month or so.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#1232 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 03:14 PM

View PostMSheridan, on 14 November 2019 - 03:07 PM, said:

Bikkies, if you want to see a different opinion, you can check this out over at National Review:

Are Republican Views Really That Unpopular? by Ramesh Ponnuru

Ponnuru is not defending Republican views in this piece (although he mostly shares them)--instead, his point is that they are not as unpopular as they are often framed by the opposition. I'd say he has only about half a point, but despite my disagreement it is a useful reply to your question above from another point of view.

I agree. He only has half a point. And to each of his assertions my gut reaction was: "Yes, but there's much more to it than that". It read like something put out by a not very bright junior spokesperson addressed to . . . I can't imagine what specific audience or demographic, but certainly one that was unaccustomed to critical thinking.

ETA: just seen Traveler's post. Props to my goodself! Never heard of the bugger but I nailed him in four sentences!
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

Only Satan can rebuke sin. The righteous don't know enough.

God is not dead. He was merely voted out of office.

You can do anything with anybody if you just save them the trouble of thinking.

#1233 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 03:24 PM

View PostRich T Bikkies, on 14 November 2019 - 03:14 PM, said:

I agree. He only has half a point. And to each of his assertions my gut reaction was: "Yes, but there's much more to it than that". It read like something put out by a not very bright junior spokesperson addressed to . . . I can't imagine what specific audience or demographic, but certainly one that was unaccustomed to critical thinking.

Once you get past the headline and the lede, its target audience stops reading.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#1234 LFC

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 04:14 PM

Kentucky's Matt Bevin finally concedes.

Quote

Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin conceded defeat on Thursday, after a recanvass of votes in the governor’s race showed Democrat Andy Beshear won by over 5,100 votes, The Courier-Journal reports. The Republican governor requested a recanvass, or a double-check of each county’s vote totals, last week after he came up 5,189 votes below Beshear. The recanvass reportedly began at 9 a.m. Thursday. Bevin announced he would accept the election’s results after numbers from 115 counties matched the vote totals from last week’s official election results.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#1235 baw1064

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 06:12 PM

View PostMSheridan, on 14 November 2019 - 03:07 PM, said:

Bikkies, if you want to see a different opinion, you can check this out over at National Review:

Are Republican Views Really That Unpopular? by Ramesh Ponnuru

Ponnuru is not defending Republican views in this piece (although he mostly shares them)--instead, his point is that they are not as unpopular as they are often framed by the opposition. I'd say he has only about half a point, but despite my disagreement it is a useful reply to your question above from another point of view.

It's always easier to just oppose something than to propose a viable alternative and a plausible path to get there. All of the Republican positions he enumerates are in the category of Just Say No rather than actual governance.
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#1236 JackD

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 07:38 PM

Michael Tamasky, in the New York Review of Books, quotes Gallup's 2018 survey of American adults ideological leanings: 35% self describe as conservative, 35% as moderate and 26% as liberal. There is the problem for the "progressives".

#1237 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 08:58 PM

View PostJackD, on 16 November 2019 - 07:38 PM, said:

Michael Tamasky, in the New York Review of Books, quotes Gallup's 2018 survey of American adults ideological leanings: 35% self describe as conservative, 35% as moderate and 26% as liberal. There is the problem for the "progressives".

And if you ask about actual policy issues you get nothing like the same results.

Tribes.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#1238 JackD

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Posted 16 November 2019 - 09:36 PM

Well, you get people in favor of medicare for all until they're asked about costs and having to give up their private insurance, for example, or relief for DACA people but not open borders. I think that's pretty consistent with the self identification numbers. As always, the question asked is critical.

#1239 Traveler

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 11:50 AM

Who is going to not like free stuff? Such as ACA benefits?
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#1240 LFC

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Posted 17 November 2019 - 12:19 PM

Despite massive full-throated support from Trump, including 3 rallies, the Republican challenger for the governorship of Louisiana fell short. Another electoral loss for Trump, not that he'd see it that way. He's the cause only if they win.

Quote

Louisiana Gov. John Bel Edwards (D) defeated his Trump-endorsed Republican challenger in the state’s gubernatorial runoff election held on Saturday.

Edwards won 51.3 percent of the vote a tight race against Eddie Rispone, whom President Donald Trump endorsed last week.

“Tonight, the people of Louisiana have chosen to chart their own path,” Edwards said during his victory speech on Saturday night, according to CNN. “You know, I have never been more hopeful that Louisiana’s best days are ahead, because we’ve proven what we can do when we put people over politics.”

The election results delivered another black eye Trump, who suffered an embarrassing hit in another ruby-red state when Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin ® lost to Democratic challenger Andy Beshear in early November, even after Trump had endorsed the Republican incumbent.

“You got to give me a big win, please, okay?” Trump pleaded during Rispone’s campaign rally last week in Bossier City, Louisiana.

It seems that Rispone will not contest the election results, unlike Bevin after his defeat.

Edwards told his supporters on Saturday night that he had spoken to Rispone and “we both agreed that the time for campaigning is over and now our shared love for Louisiana is always more important than the partisan differences that sometimes divide us.”

“And as for the President, God bless his heart,” the Democratic governor added.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer





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