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2020 Presidential & Congressional Elections


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#1161 JackD

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 02:16 PM

In the first debate, all of the participants, including Sanders, Warren, Biden, et al. raised their hands to Chuck Todd's simplistic question of who would agree not to deport undocumented people who had not committed a serious crime. That is, for all practical purposes, an open border. None of the candidates, to my knowledge, has modified their answers. In the interim, Republicans have been accusing them of accepting open borders and I haven't noticed any of them denying it.

#1162 MSheridan

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 03:21 PM

We need far more legal immigration than we currently allow. That is a simple fact. Were it not for immigration, including the undocumented, our nation's population would be shrinking even as it was getting older. There are many reasons that combination doesn't work. It's not even as if a shrinking population would save available jobs for the native born, as capitalism fails when it contracts.

Democrats tend to talk more about increasing legal immigration and cracking down on large employers of undocumented, yes. That is because, setting aside refugees (a related but separate issue), we think going after employers is the best way to preserve decent jobs and discourage those who come here for them. Deport some hapless undocumented factory or restaurant worker who is probably afraid to unionize and another will probably very soon take his or her place. Fine the hell out of the factory owner and the job will go to someone native born. If we did more of this, we'd still have some illegal immigration when prospects here were better than their home nation, but they would mostly be doing what a lot of immigrants already are doing, honest but necessary scutwork significant numbers of our US born citizens are not exactly lining up for.

#1163 JackD

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 04:11 PM

During the Boehner speakership, the Senate actually put together a deal on immigration but Boehner would not let the House vote on it. The Democrats probably should be promoting that, with its relief for DACA people, rather than allowing their position to characterized by Republicans as if you can get here, you can stay. Those "hapless undocumented, factory or restaurant workers" often turn into other kinds of workers, particularly in construction, who compete with citizens and are definitely resented.
Saying we won't deport undocumented people generally just creates an issue in the battleground states that is unnecessary and really does create open borders since the majority of undocumented are people who enter legally and overstay their visas.

#1164 golden_valley

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 04:45 PM

My son, working as a bus boy in a restaurant in Arizona, was told "you work like a Mexican" and that was a compliment. The shift manager said the white college boys, of which my kid was one, who worked there were mostly lazy and lacked initiative. The Mexicans were more conscientious and didn't stand around eating what was left of someone's dessert.

#1165 Traveler

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 04:53 PM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 08 November 2019 - 02:06 PM, said:

I keep hearing that, and it's probably true. But...could you point me to someone who does stand for open borders? I mean, someone of at least a bit more national prominence than me?
Really? Anyone can just walk in and camp out? I am with Andy and Mike on this one. Dems look absolutely idiotic.

We need much more immigration, but of the right type. With reasonable country quotas, and prioritizing those who can add more to the economy (which is virtually anyone that immigrates). So that means more STEM etc, but with a realistic leavening of our workers we need for the scut jobs. Which means a lot more than currently allowed. So expand the pool to an economically sustainable pool of workers. This automatically creates a built in "demand" to be filled by current illegals. Starting with DACA, then those who came first, etc etc. There is no way we are going to deport 11m people. Who are both motivated and adapted, which makes them more effective. Meanwhile keep the current miserly quotas in place until the backlog is papered. Then resume quotas that reflect sustainable growth.

And Enforce eVerify rigorously. Keep ICE on the borders, instead of all over the countryside. Wins all the way around.

Now as to refugees, that is a completely different issue. Far thornier. But open borders is not the answer. Sure, reasonable refugee camps (with intact families!), but there has to be a way to process them in a timely and fair manner. Which is not the case now, that is for sure.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#1166 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 05:25 PM

View PostJackD, on 08 November 2019 - 02:16 PM, said:

In the first debate, all of the participants, including Sanders, Warren, Biden, et al. raised their hands to Chuck Todd's simplistic question of who would agree not to deport undocumented people who had not committed a serious crime. That is, for all practical purposes, an open border. None of the candidates, to my knowledge, has modified their answers. In the interim, Republicans have been accusing them of accepting open borders and I haven't noticed any of them denying it.

Chuck Todd saves his "have you stopped beating your wife" questions for Democrats.

There is no sensible answer as he asked it, and a show of hands is the antithesis of thoughtful response.

How about "are you in favor of major fines for employers of people who don't have a legal right to work in the USA?" I'll bet you get totally different answers, because it addresses the real problem. You'd also see Republicans scrambling for rocks to hide under, because except for PR reasons they LOVE undocumented immigration. It provides their patrons with cheap labor that can be abused without risk, because if the peons get uppity you just threaten to call ICE -- no risk to you, and you can steal them blind because they have no recourse.

See how things look different if you ask intelligent questions?
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#1167 JackD

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 05:39 PM

I didn't accuse Chuck Todd of asking an intelligent question.

#1168 Traveler

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 07:30 PM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 08 November 2019 - 05:25 PM, said:

Chuck Todd saves his "have you stopped beating your wife" questions for Democrats.

There is no sensible answer as he asked it, and a show of hands is the antithesis of thoughtful response.

How about "are you in favor of major fines for employers of people who don't have a legal right to work in the USA?" I'll bet you get totally different answers, because it addresses the real problem. You'd also see Republicans scrambling for rocks to hide under, because except for PR reasons they LOVE undocumented immigration. It provides their patrons with cheap labor that can be abused without risk, because if the peons get uppity you just threaten to call ICE -- no risk to you, and you can steal them blind because they have no recourse.

See how things look different if you ask intelligent questions?
Chuck Todd, the gift that keeps on giving. I have no idea why MSM insists on some bothsidesdoit bullshit. CNN hosting Conway still sticks in my craw.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#1169 AnBr

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 08:33 PM

Not exactly about the election, but if the Dems were smart they would start pounding this point.

Posted Image
“Trump’s a stupid man’s idea of a smart person, a poor man’s idea of a rich person & a weak man’s idea of a strong man.”

— Fran Lebowitz


“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#1170 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 08:42 AM

Chime in with Trump on "do-nothing Congress" and then ask which House needs change.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#1171 gmat

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 10:16 AM

Virginia as a laboratory for democracy.

“Run the Republican party playbook in reverse”

https://www.nytimes....-democracy.html



#1172 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 11:08 AM

View Postgmat, on 09 November 2019 - 10:16 AM, said:

Virginia as a laboratory for democracy.

“Run the Republican party playbook in reverse”

https://www.nytimes....-democracy.html

Bouie is always worth reading.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#1173 LFC

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 11:14 AM

View PostAnBr, on 08 November 2019 - 08:33 PM, said:

Not exactly about the election, but if the Dems were smart they would start pounding this point.

Posted Image

Posted Image
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#1174 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 11:29 AM

About "funding servicemembers" -- isn't that the money that got turned into financing a Trump campaign gimmick?

Why would Congress allocate more money just to have it diverted by the Administration to things that Congress had already voted down?
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#1175 Rue Bella

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 12:54 PM

Quote

Why would Congress allocate more money just to have it diverted by the Administration ...

...to help build Trumps insane border wall - which can be cut through with reciprocating saws from Home Depot. Or from Bezos' Amazon.
What is wrong with these people? ~ PG

California Secession - Let my people go!

#1176 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 12:58 PM

View PostRue Bella, on 09 November 2019 - 12:54 PM, said:

...to help build Trumps insane border wall - which can be cut through with reciprocating saws from Home Depot. Or from Bezos' Amazon.

Proof, if any were needed, that Bezos is a traitor.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#1177 JackD

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 02:31 PM

Bernie Sanders has released his immigration policy proposals. They are very detailed and complex. Looking at them all together, it looks to me as though he is endorsing the if you can get here, you can stay position except as to people who overstay their visas who can be guilty of a felony under the relevant statute. Anyone read it differently?

#1178 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 03:11 PM

Everybody understands "security theater," right?

What we're seeing across the board is "immigration theater."
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#1179 Rue Bella

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 03:39 PM

Her response was exactly what my reaction was even before I read her complete response - that women aren't supposed to get angry. It's not lady-like, dont-cha-know. That will hit a cord with many women. Biden, 'don't bother your pretty little head', is a fossil, but if necessary I'll vote for him. I do wish we had better candidates.

https://thehill.com/...ry-and-i-own-it


Quote

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) is responding to comments from fellow 2020 White House hopeful Joe Biden, who this week said the “my way or the highway” approach of her presidential campaign signaled an “angry” viewpoint.

“I am angry and I own it,” read the subject line of a Friday fundraising email from Warren's campaign.

“Over and over, we are told that women are not allowed to be angry. It makes us unattractive to powerful men who want us to be quiet,” the email read.

What is wrong with these people? ~ PG

California Secession - Let my people go!

#1180 gmat

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Posted 10 November 2019 - 09:17 AM

Historic!

https://wtop.com/vir...EwA4BD-rBYfLGnY





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