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The urban-rural divide


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#61 Traveler

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 08:53 AM

That and lack of water. The Colorado is drying up.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
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#62 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 02:39 PM

View PostTraveler, on 12 May 2019 - 08:53 AM, said:

That and lack of water. The Colorado is drying up.

And California golf courses get first dibs.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
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"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#63 LFC

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 05:32 PM

Rural areas keep falling behind. Maybe if they tried to offer something to employers, like an educated workforce, people would stick around. But no, the answer as always for Republicans is "MORE TAX CUTS!" Instead they're losing people, losing healthcare providers, and generally melting away. It's expected to continue.

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The Republican Party is entrenched in rural America with the overwhelming majority of small towns being represented by the GOP. But the population in these areas are under a huge decline.

That’s a nightmare scenario for Republicans in Congress, whose districts are determined by population. The Republican Party has worked diligently to ensure gerrymandering can protect their rural members as the population shifts toward the suburbs.

One key component of the Affordable Care Act went to subsidizing rural hospitals to prevent them from closing. Most of that has been defunded by Republicans if the states were even willing to allow Medicare/Medicaid expansion in the state, to begin with. A Navigant report out earlier this year showed that more than one in five rural hospitals have closed so far.

Chronically poor rural communities lost 14 percent of the population “between 1990 and 2015, which is far worse than the 27-percent population gain of the nation as a whole,” explained CityLab. Transitioning rural areas are ones where manufacturing once reigned supreme. With deindustrialization, however, some areas have suffered. On the whole, however, such rural communities held on to their populations and grew 11 percent. The rural communities that have been able to not only survive but thrive are those that offer something unique. Mountains, lakes, and coastlines are more likely to attract young people who want to live in rural areas.

To make matters worse, the people willing to resettle in rural areas are older. For smaller communities to survive, they have to find ways to incentivize young people to create their own jobs or get jobs online. Rural communities lost 400,000 jobs from 2007 to 2015 alone. The problem with online jobs, of course, is that super-fast highspeed internet isn’t available in rural areas. Most communities are lucky to even have broadband.

In Kansas, a program was started to get young people back into rural areas by paying off student loans. A Newsy video showed how Nicole Ludwig was able to start her own business with the help of the Kansas Rural Opportunity Zone program. It gives students $3,000 each year for up to five years toward their student loans if they move to a rural county in Kansas. Ludwig graduated from Fort. Hays State University with $25,000 in student loan debt, which is near the average cost most American students graduate with today. The average graduate must pay $400 each month just to stay on top of their loan payments.

Graduates typically flock to urban metro areas, where there are more options for jobs and better-paying jobs. A study from the Federal Reserve showed that rural students who borrowed money from their hometown banks were able to pay the loans off faster when living in urban areas. They’re also less likely to be delinquent on the loans and more likely to buy a home over time.

The Center for Economic Development and Business Research in Kansas showed that the state’s population in rural areas is expected to decline significantly over the next 20 years. The Rural Opportunity Zone project, however, is already showing promise for keeping young people in small communities, however. The program was so effective in Kansas that rural communities in Indiana, Ohio, Michigan and Vermont are all starting or working on similar programs. Most opportunities for students in rural communities are agriculture-related. Some have to do with healthcare or education, but for students that focused on other fields, jobs can be limited.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#64 MSheridan

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 02:28 AM

There is a long and fascinating piece over at First Things that may at first glance seem unrelated, but I believe there is a solid connection to this topic:

The Outsider

#65 baw1064

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 05:33 PM

View PostMSheridan, on 01 October 2019 - 02:28 AM, said:

There is a long and fascinating piece over at First Things that may at first glance seem unrelated, but I believe there is a solid connection to this topic:

The Outsider

Interesting, and thanks for pointing this article out.

I think this guy's premise has some pretty significant internal contradictions. On one hand he says that control by elites is inevitable; on the other he says he foresees the common folk kicking the elite's ass. But won't this just install a new class of elite (or just result in chaos, if the proletarian anger continues to be a "headless body"? Also, for people out of power to overthrow an existing social order, they pretty much have to enjoy a significant numerical advantage. But if the major discontent of the "MAP"'s is that they've lost the numerical advantage, how's that going to work?
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#66 MSheridan

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 12:02 AM

Well, I obviously am not on the same page with Samuel Francis on the big things, but regarding your second question, remember that his work was written decades ago, when the country's demographics hadn't arrived to our present-day status. Regarding the first, I'd guess he had little issues with elites as such, but wanted a different elite, one sharing his own personal vision. Like many outsiders, he thought if he and people like him were on the inside, the world would be better run.

Regardless of all I think he got wrong, his work and thought as described in this piece is revelatory. Especially as I don't think he was wrong about everything. His racism, yes. His goals, yes. Elites and the animus felt toward them by a significant part of the country, no, not altogether.

#67 baw1064

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 12:20 AM

View PostMSheridan, on 07 October 2019 - 12:02 AM, said:

Well, I obviously am not on the same page with Samuel Francis on the big things, but regarding your second question, remember that his work was written decades ago, when the country's demographics hadn't arrived to our present-day status. Regarding the first, I'd guess he had little issues with elites as such, but wanted a different elite, one sharing his own personal vision. Like many outsiders, he thought if he and people like him were on the inside, the world would be better run.

Regardless of all I think he got wrong, his work and thought as described in this piece is revelatory. Especially as I don't think he was wrong about everything. His racism, yes. His goals, yes. Elites and the animus felt toward them by a significant part of the country, no, not altogether.

Agreed--he does capture that mindset quite accurately, while also exemplifying its blind spots and inconsistencies.
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#68 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 02:22 AM

View PostMSheridan, on 07 October 2019 - 12:02 AM, said:

Regarding the first, I'd guess he had little issues with elites as such, but wanted a different elite, one sharing his own personal vision. Like many outsiders, he thought if he and people like him were on the inside, the world would be better run.

That is a powerful and fruitful insight, that clarifies many issues causing "the present discontents".
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

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God is not dead. He was merely voted out of office.

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#69 MSheridan

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 07:55 PM

This. So very much this:

Excellent Read in the Land of Self-Defeat

Simon-pure crab mentality.

#70 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 01:03 AM

View PostMSheridan, on 07 October 2019 - 07:55 PM, said:

This. So very much this:

Excellent Read in the Land of Self-Defeat

Simon-pure crab mentality.

Amazing: 5.8 gigaLikes! Which, of course, are nonLikes. Western democracy is in big, big trouble, Because education is. Because . . . well, that's where it starts getting complicated.

We've got to get rid of Trump. And Johnson. And then the real work begins, Aims and objectives on one sheet of paper. Any nominations for the small team to do the first draft? Me, I haven't a clue.
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

Only Satan can rebuke sin. The righteous don't know enough.
Rudyard Kipling

God is not dead. He was merely voted out of office.

You can do anything with anybody if you just save them the trouble of thinking.
Rudyard Kipling

People don’t believe in ideas: they believe in people who believe in ideas. Ze’ev Mankowitz

#71 Traveler

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 07:23 AM

PW, 1000 likes. Especially for crab mentality. In a nutshell.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#72 pnwguy

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 09:38 AM

View PostMSheridan, on 07 October 2019 - 07:55 PM, said:

This. So very much this:

Excellent Read in the Land of Self-Defeat

Simon-pure crab mentality.
One of the Balloon Juice commenters linked to this piece. https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/03/donald-trump-white-working-class-dysfunction-real-opportunity-needed-not-trump

If you overlook the preachiness about divorce and abortion (this IS the National Review after all), the fact that a conservative media publication "got it" before the 2016 election is rather amazing. This was an interesting quote:

The white American underclass is in thrall to a vicious, selfish culture whose main products are misery and used heroin needles
"All glory to the HypnoTrump, or else..."

"It all makes sense when you remind yourself that the GOP is no longer a political party but turned into an organized crime family"

"I hope to live long enough that the name Trump is reviled as much as the name Hitler or Stalin"

#73 LFC

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 09:49 AM

View Postpnwguy, on 08 October 2019 - 09:38 AM, said:

The white American underclass is in thrall to a vicious, selfish culture whose main products are misery and used heroin needles

And the GOP has weaponized, encouraged, and emboldened that vicious, selfish culture. But as MSheridan's citation of the crab mentality shows they don't want to just live in their vicious, selfish bubble. They demand that they get to rip the more successful rest the nation apart because it makes them feel like failures ... which, of course, is what they are.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#74 golden_valley

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 10:20 AM

View Postpnwguy, on 08 October 2019 - 09:38 AM, said:

One of the Balloon Juice commenters linked to this piece. https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/03/donald-trump-white-working-class-dysfunction-real-opportunity-needed-not-trump

If you overlook the preachiness about divorce and abortion (this IS the National Review after all), the fact that a conservative media publication "got it" before the 2016 election is rather amazing. This was an interesting quote:

The white American underclass is in thrall to a vicious, selfish culture whose main products are misery and used heroin needles

The economic explanation of why small manufacturing based towns are in trouble in the first half of that National Review article is insightful. The descent from that to the argument that divorce and abortion severed family ties and that's why people seek authoritarianism is puzzling to me. Even if everyone stayed in unhappy marriages and had more kids than they could afford how would that improve their economic status given all that was contained in the first half of the article?

#75 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 12:27 PM

View Postgolden_valley, on 08 October 2019 - 10:20 AM, said:

Even if everyone stayed in unhappy marriages and had more kids than they could afford how would that improve their economic status given all that was contained in the first half of the article?

Distraction. Change the subject, and serve up authoritarian Christianity as the solution to everything.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#76 JackD

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 12:28 PM

And isn't there a likely connection between the stress of the economic insecurity and the social issues arising from and perhaps leading to widespread divorce and unwanted pregnancies?

#77 LFC

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 12:30 PM

View PostJackD, on 08 October 2019 - 12:28 PM, said:

And isn't there a likely connection between the stress of the economic insecurity and the social issues arising from and perhaps leading to widespread divorce and unwanted pregnancies?

C'mon, Jack. Just say no!
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#78 pnwguy

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 12:44 PM

View Postgolden_valley, on 08 October 2019 - 10:20 AM, said:

The descent from that to the argument that divorce and abortion severed family ties and that's why people seek authoritarianism is puzzling to me.
The attraction to rely on authoritarians who blame "the other" for their woes seems to be a common theme in human tribalism. I guess something about our neural development favors a fear of external enemies, real or imagined. It's just sad that the history of modern humanity has let the evil manipulators thrive, to the detriment of civilizations over time.
"All glory to the HypnoTrump, or else..."

"It all makes sense when you remind yourself that the GOP is no longer a political party but turned into an organized crime family"

"I hope to live long enough that the name Trump is reviled as much as the name Hitler or Stalin"

#79 JackD

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 12:55 PM

OK, "no". Did that fix or help something?

#80 Traveler

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 12:59 PM

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It is immoral because it perpetuates a lie: that the white working class that finds itself attracted to Trump has been victimized by outside forces. It hasn’t. The white middle class may like the idea of Trump as a giant pulsing humanoid middle finger held up in the face of the Cathedral, they may sing hymns to Trump the destroyer and whisper darkly about “globalists” and — odious, stupid term — “the Establishment,” but nobody did this to them. They failed themselves.
Great article.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire





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