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Would you evacuate?


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#21 Rue Bella

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 09:55 AM

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...and I sometimes wonder- those who stay: How many of those decisions are based on sheer arrogance/ignorance, and how many are made with economics in mind.

Here, with respect to fires, whether to go or not is based on experience. About a month ago, we were under a mandatory evacuation, but did not go because the wind was not coming our way. But we were ready, and our exit route is easy. In 2 other fires, we did go based on visual 'it's coming our way, and fast'.

Evacuations from hurricanes requires greater distances, and longer durations, so economics would enter into it. Fires, you drive to friends across town and wait a day or two, and the danger usually subsides.

I think authorities often set evacuation zones further than they need to in an abundance of caution. And for many people who lack common sense with respect to their surroundings, that is necessary. But so many people who have successfully lived through a few of these calamities are slower to heed warnings of impending doom, because 'last time' it did not live up to the warnings.
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#22 LFC

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 09:58 AM

View PostPractical Girl, on 14 September 2018 - 08:48 AM, said:

I would have absolutely evacuated, for as long as it took. But then, we can carry our jobs with us, can afford lodging etc. Not a huge disruption for us.

Not everybody is in that position, and I sometimes wonder- those who stay: How many of those decisions are based on sheer arrogance/ignorance, and how many are made with economics in mind.

I saw a brief interview with a couple that broke down during their overly late evacuation. They ended up OK but the reason they gave for thinking they might ride it out was financial. It's scary to think how many people might be risking their lives simply because evacuation and later return to a fully intact home might crush them financially.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#23 golden_valley

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 12:56 PM

I think the financial reason is a pretty powerful one, especially when coupled with the idea that the authorities and media exaggerate the danger. But the financial part isn't really an "I can't afford to miss work" idea or even a "I can't afford a hotel room" one. The financial reason is an "I can't afford to replace my house/contents" reason. Somehow that coupled with the idea that it won't be so bad leads one to think "I will stay here and protect my stuff from damage or looting."

#24 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 01:35 PM

There are drawbacks to living in a small town in the Rio Grande valley. Evacuation isn't one of them. I'm on relatively high ground, the property is higher than those around us, and the runoff routes go well beyond that. Worse comes to worst, a five-minute walk takes us up another six or ten meters and if a flood reaches that high better start looking for an ark while asking for directions to Ararat.

Fire? the same five minutes' walk gets us to open desert.

Now, that's not bragging -- everyone should be able to recite similarly what their escape options are from memory, because that means you've actually thought about it. Brother #2 had to start scratching on paper to figure out how he'd leave his (former) Space Coast waterfront home in case of a hurricane.
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#25 Bact PhD

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 07:28 PM

From Flori-DUH, Latest Hurricane Edition:

The surge from Michael is supposed to be pretty rough pretty much up and down the coast, all the way through the Panhandle. Were I right on, or that near, the coast, especially from just north of St. Pete on around -- Cedar Key, for instance -- I'd be bugging out. Although I'm a fairly short hop to the Gulf, it's pretty far inland. In terms of rain & generally nasty weather, Dear Daughter may see more of it in NC than we do here.
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#26 LFC

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 08:59 AM

A quick look at the NOAA real-time data buoy 115 nm SSE of Pensacola shows winds blowing about 60-75 mph with average seas running 28' with just 8 seconds between crests. That means you can probably expect at least some waves to be 50% higher and the worst ones perhaps double and coming at you fast. Meteorologically speaking, It's a serious shit-show out there.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#27 Bact PhD

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 11:54 AM

Michael, wash those boats ashore...[1]

The sucker is making landfall near Panama City at this hour -- min pressure 923 mb. Serious shit.
It's been plain old overcast here all day, humid as all get-out -- 79F at 0600. Oddly enough, we had more wind here Monday and yesterday than I'm seeing right now. We'll still need to watch out for tornadoes for the next 24 h or so. Much to Dear Son's disappointment, however, schools are still in session here, although classes have been cancelled in counties to our west.

[1]No apologies to the Kingston Trio.
Politics these days is show business. Elections are Dancing with the Stars with consequences. ~Rue Bella

(About fame) Living for likes, shares and follows is a form of validation. The question is whether it is also the source of our self esteem. If it is, we’re screwed. And, culturally, it seems as if it’s become more and more our shared value. ... Meringue is no longer a sweet and pretty topping but the body itself. ~Charles Perez

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816. ME 14:384, via LFC, 12/1/2016

Competent people go in one of a few directions. But incompetence is infinite. ~David Brooks, NY Times

#28 andydp

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 03:25 PM

View PostBact PhD, on 10 October 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

Michael, wash those boats ashore...[1]

The sucker is making landfall near Panama City at this hour -- min pressure 923 mb. Serious shit.


[1]No apologies to the Kingston Trio.

First, I’m glad it’s minimal impact for you personally.

Next I can’t believe this is due to climate change since the Governor banned it a few years ago. Then again screwing up beaches and waterways is probably a “perk”.

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If you've got public schools paid for by taxpayers, you're in a socialist nation. If you have public roads paid for by taxpayers, socialist nation. If you've got public defense (police, fire, military, coast guard) paid for by tax dollars, socialist nation. If you're in a nation that has nationalized or localized delivery of services that are not paid for by users alone, you're in a socialist nation- the only question is how socialist. As I see it, we pay the military pay to protect the shipping lanes for our fuel needs which makes us very socialist. In a capitalist nation, the people supplying the oil would pay for their own defense force.


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#29 LFC

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 04:05 PM

View Postandydp, on 10 October 2018 - 03:25 PM, said:

Next I can’t believe this is due to climate change since the Governor banned it a few years ago.

Posted Image
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#30 LFC

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 04:07 PM

Posted Image
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#31 LFC

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 03:14 PM

Is Michael going to be Trump's second Katrina after the failures in Puerto Rico?

Quote

Chantelle Goolspy sat in her car making phone calls to get help. Goolspy and many of her neighbors live in a public housing area in downtown Panama City that was badly devastated.

“We’re in need of food, water, anything, we’re not getting any help. The whole street needs help,” Goolspy told the Red Cross. “FEMA referred me to you. That person told me to call 211.”

Down the street, Barbara Sanders stood outside her daughter’s unit, where she had come to stay during the hurricane.

“We’re not getting any help,” she said. “We need food. It’s just crazy.”

Sanders said that not a single relief agency had come by to check on them. Only the police had come and it was to tell everyone to leave. “They told us there’s nothing they can do and it’s gonna take a long time to rebuild,” Sanders said.

Just then a pick-up truck arrived with water. It was the first help this neighborhood had received and it turned out to be two brothers—Chris and Brendon Hill, from Louisiana—who had decided to come and help.


Rick Scott and Marco Rubio are trying to say everything is going according to plan. I guess we'll see but basic water and food aid in the first 48 hours after the hurricane passed doesn't seem to have been quite ready to roll out.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#32 golden_valley

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 07:26 PM

Two guys build a mega hurricane proof house in Mexico Beach FL and we see it as that big building standing amidst the wreckage of other beach front or near beach front property. So now I ask, should coastal communities revise their building codes to require similar construction for buildings on such property (putting aside the issue of coastal flooding that will become permanent)? If so, does that mean that people of lesser means will never be able to build on the coasts? Does this just mean that coasts are for rich people and no one else? Or should building in such areas just be prohibited altogether?

#33 Rue Bella

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 08:16 PM

Hurricane Michael is God's message to Florida to stop voting red.
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#34 LFC

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 09:06 AM

View Postgolden_valley, on 15 October 2018 - 07:26 PM, said:

Two guys build a mega hurricane proof house in Mexico Beach FL and we see it as that big building standing amidst the wreckage of other beach front or near beach front property. So now I ask, should coastal communities revise their building codes to require similar construction for buildings on such property (putting aside the issue of coastal flooding that will become permanent)? If so, does that mean that people of lesser means will never be able to build on the coasts? Does this just mean that coasts are for rich people and no one else? Or should building in such areas just be prohibited altogether?

I guess people should be allowed to build but with no public infrastructure and using only private insurance. If a state or town wants to do it then they can bear the expense themselves. I'm tired of American tax dollars going to pay for reckless stupidity. This isn't about people who built someplace and never saw an event coming. Building on beach sand is incredibly risky. Let the owners take the risk.

Ditto for Houston where the residents and their representatives voted down common sense building codes for decades. For all the talk about personal responsibility on the right it sure flies out the window when the predictable (and predicted) outcomes occur. Except when 150 year old homes get destroyed in NY and NJ, homes place in harm's way with climate change. Then apparently it's all "f*** those people."
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#35 George Rowell

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 09:44 AM

If I was in a burning house, the roof was collapsing, my collection of old radios gone up in smoke, I might evacuate. But I would not tell anybody.
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#36 golden_valley

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 02:47 PM

View PostGeorge Powell, on 19 October 2018 - 09:44 AM, said:

If I was in a burning house, the roof was collapsing, my collection of old radios gone up in smoke, I might evacuate. But I would not tell anybody.

Speaking of burning houses, California is on fire again and about 100,000 people are evacuated from their homes. Our Dear Leader, with his usual empathy and kindness, offers these comforting words:

Quote

“There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor,” Trump tweeted Saturday morning, before the announcement of two more deaths in Southern California fires. “Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!”

At least he didn't blame water policy this time around.

ETA the number is now almost 200,000 people evacuated. The SoCal fire is near more populated densely areas. The NorCal fire is about to increase because wind speeds will increase tonight creating the expectation of "extreme fire behavior" and potential evacuation of another town.

#37 LFC

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 04:21 PM

View Postgolden_valley, on 10 November 2018 - 02:47 PM, said:

Speaking of burning houses, California is on fire again and about 100,000 people are evacuated from their homes. Our Dear Leader, with his usual empathy and kindness, offers these comforting words:

Dear Mr. Trump- The fire in Northern California is in the Plumas National Forest. Please review who is in charge of a "National Forest" and then feel free to STFU.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#38 Rue Bella

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 04:58 PM

How is the Idiot in Chief going to stop the fires? My closest friends lost their home a few months ago. Their fire was started on private property, in a strong Santa Ana, on a day when the temp had been 105*F. Some fires are unstoppable. Perhaps if the dolt would do something about climate change, that might help. Though anything now is probably too late.

Quote

“There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor,”

Perhaps he means selling leases to timber companies for clear-cutting. Without forests, there would be no forest fires. He probably has no clue what chaparral is.
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#39 LFC

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 05:03 PM

View PostRue Bella, on 10 November 2018 - 04:58 PM, said:

He probably has no clue what chaparral is.

He does too! Mar-a-Lago serves the best chaparral in the world!
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#40 golden_valley

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Posted 10 November 2018 - 05:06 PM

View PostLFC, on 10 November 2018 - 04:21 PM, said:

Dear Mr. Trump- The fire in Northern California is in the Plumas National Forest. Please review who is in charge of a "National Forest" and then feel free to STFU.

STFU?!? Not possible with this guy.





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