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SCOTUS Decisions - The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly


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#41 AnBr

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Posted 30 June 2018 - 07:05 PM

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“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#42 gmat

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 01:23 PM

Better win some elections. Turnout for the people most affected by Trumpism, ie poor people, persons of color, and 18-30 year olds is ridiculously low. Fucking ridiculous. Shameful.

(White rich people turn out 90+%)

It’s all about getting registered, then voting. Nothing complicated. Dirt simple. All you have to do is give a shit.

#43 JackD

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 01:39 PM

"Dirt simple". In some places, there are effective suppressers like specific types of ID, travel to distant offices, and the like. Then there are the places that remove you from the rolls for dubious reasons.

#44 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 02:54 PM

View PostJackD, on 01 July 2018 - 01:39 PM, said:

Then there are the places that remove you from the rolls for dubious reasons.

... whether you know it or not until it's election day.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#45 pnwguy

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 03:32 PM

100% vote by mail has worked fabulously here in Oregon. And it’s less expensive and far simpler to participate. Going to a polling place is horse and buggy for a nation that wants a Space Force.
"All glory to the HypnoTrump, or else..."

"It all makes sense when you remind yourself that the GOP is no longer a political party but turned into an organized crime family"

"I hope to live long enough that the name Trump is reviled as much as the name Hitler or Stalin"

#46 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 04:02 PM

View Postpnwguy, on 01 July 2018 - 03:32 PM, said:

100% vote by mail has worked fabulously here in Oregon. And it’s less expensive and far simpler to participate. Going to a polling place is horse and buggy for a nation that wants a Space Force.

The problem with Vote By Mail is that it's hard(er) to keep the Wrong People (wink, nudge) from voting.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#47 gmat

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 04:02 PM

View PostJackD, on 01 July 2018 - 01:39 PM, said:

"Dirt simple". In some places, there are effective suppressers like specific types of ID, travel to distant offices, and the like. Then there are the places that remove you from the rolls for dubious reasons.

The number of people whose vote gets succcessfully suppressed vs the number of people who 1) think their vote makes no difference, plus 2) think nothing ever changes anyway, plus 3) couldn’t care less, 4) are “too busy”...

...is miniscule.

Latino turnout in 2016 was <47%. Without “voter suppression” what would it have been?

The way to overcome voter suppression is just to actually give enough of a shit.

#48 gmat

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 04:05 PM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 01 July 2018 - 02:54 PM, said:



... whether you know it or not until it's election day.

So don’t wait until election day to check your registration status.

#49 gmat

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 04:10 PM

View PostJackD, on 01 July 2018 - 01:39 PM, said:

"Dirt simple". In some places, there are effective suppressers like specific types of ID, travel to distant offices, and the like. Then there are the places that remove you from the rolls for dubious reasons.

So what. Get the specific type of ID. Get a ride to the distant office, or register by mail/online. Get a ride to the poll or vote absentee.

If you can’t figure out how to do that stuff there are tons of people begging you to let them help you.

But first you have to give a shit.

#50 JackD

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 04:47 PM

"First you have to give a shit."

The specific type of ID often costs money they don't have. Registration by mail or online is not available in voter repression states. Location and number of polling places are often used to repress the votes through sheer inconvenience and time and for poor people rides and/or public transportation money may not be available. As to many of these things, it takes lots of organizational effort to educate prospective voters, get them registered, and get them to the polls. Motivation is, indeed, important but so is overcoming the obstacles that for poor people are far bigger than they are for the steadily and reasonably comfortably employed.

One also has to give them a reason to give a shit. In the last go round, Trump said to Blacks and Latinos and unemployed and underemployed Whites "They're not doing anything for you; what've you got to lose? I'm gonna fix it!" Now the Democrats can remind them of what they have to lose and have lost but they also have to tell them what is going to be done to help them.

It's not so simple. I'm just sayin'.

#51 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 05:06 PM

View Postgmat, on 01 July 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

So what. Get the specific type of ID. Get a ride to the distant office, or register by mail/online. Get a ride to the poll or vote absentee.

You might want to check the account -- witnessed and sworn -- of the gent in IIRC Wisconsin who carefully read the voter registration handout, got the necessary paperwork together, got a ride to the appropriate office, waited in line on a workday, and was turned away for the lack of papers not described in either the handout or the sign on the wall. No joy with the supervisor.

Took another day off work to get the newly required paperwork, returned, and was again refused due to yet more previously unmentioned requirements.

At which point that maxim that "if at first you don't succeed, try try again -- and then fuck it, because the game is rigged" applies. How many people were going to miss the rent or lose their jobs for jumping through even the first undocumented hoop?

In Ohio and Florida (and others, but those two are very well documented) people wait in line to well after midnight, with no toilets, to vote in places that have too few booths and sometimes not remotely enough ballots. On workdays. In other States, the official polling location for a town is several miles outside of town with zero public transportation. I've been in parts of Alabama where the only place to register is several hours of back-country roads from the offices that register voters -- and the posted times that the offices are open aren't accurate.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#52 AnBr

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 09:16 PM

And then there is Alabama that passed its voter ID law only to close all of the DMVs in the black counties where they could have obtained the required IDs. Many of these people are so marginalized that they cannot take time off, even if they could afford it without risking their jobs. It is not so easy for many.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#53 pnwguy

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 10:19 PM

For the most part, the kind of deep-pocket American oligarchs aren't really interested in democracy. The kind of government-connected capitalism that now operates in Russia and China, with a one-party ruling elite works just fine for them. They will give the religious tyrants and racial bigots their due, so that they can keep control of the working stiffs. But as Americans still have a memory about democracy, they have to put together enough of a dog and pony show for appearances. Between gerrymandering and voter suppression support, they can make sure the political elites they need stay in power, and they have been playing the long game regarding the judiciary. Give the GOP-funders credit, they have been playing 3 dimensional chess for decades.
"All glory to the HypnoTrump, or else..."

"It all makes sense when you remind yourself that the GOP is no longer a political party but turned into an organized crime family"

"I hope to live long enough that the name Trump is reviled as much as the name Hitler or Stalin"

#54 Traveler

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 06:49 AM

I contend, that for every voter that cannot get ID or gets tossed off the rolls, there are another 10 that just don't vote, even though they have the ID. Millennials are a classic example. Its due to their not voting that makes actual suppression work at the margins (maybe 1%), where elections can be won and lost. We all rail against the suppression, but that is but a fraction of the self-suppressed (40-50%).

This is the real problem. And DNC don't seem to be doing much about it.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#55 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 07:00 AM

View PostTraveler, on 02 July 2018 - 06:49 AM, said:

I contend, that for every voter that cannot get ID or gets tossed off the rolls, there are another 10 that just don't vote, even though they have the ID.

[...]

And DNC don't seem to be doing much about it.

It's not a DNC problem, or at least not directly one. The DNC can rightly be blamed for ignoring local organization and failure to support a local-to-State-to-national career path so that there are candidates everywhere, even when the locale is dark red, and in turn the lack of local organization and contested elections has a big effect on turnout. However, that (like the lack of regional candidates) is not really a DNC responsibility other than pushing the national candidates to lend visible support to the rank below etc.

Don't ask me how the whole Party got so fixated on top-down thinking but it's pervasive and apparently being challenged from the bottom up. Which is IMHO the only way to fix the problem.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#56 gmat

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 07:16 AM

Plenty of voter suppression anecdotes. Here’s my anti-voter suppression anecdote.

https://www.theatlan...alabama/548504/

They’re pretty good with voter suppression in Alabama, too.

There’s plenty of help to be had, for blacks and latinos. The latinos in particular need to step up. But first you got to have the ganas, the desire.

And the 18-30 year olds? What’s their problem?

And all these cohorts, the poor, the non-white, the young?when you poll them, they’re majority progressive on every issue.

#57 JackD

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 09:18 AM

"There's plenty of help." Yes, but it is organizational help that reaches out to voters not the other way around. Get out the vote is accomplished by the candidates' messages combined with organized logistical support.

18-30 year olds showed up in New York. We'll see how they do elsewhere. You're certainly right that they have been unreliable in the past.

#58 AnBr

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 09:23 AM

View PostJackD, on 02 July 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

18-30 year olds showed up in New York. We'll see how they do elsewhere. You're certainly right that they have been unreliable in the past.

Many of them could not even be bothered to vote for Sanders, even though they attended his rallies.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#59 Traveler

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 01:52 PM

gmat, that was a great article. DC, it exemplified what you were talking about in terms of bottom up. My beef with the DNC is that they should be identifying and supporting these organizations more than anything. Just getting folks the ID is more than half the battle to get them to vote.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#60 Bact PhD

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 02:13 PM

View PostTraveler, on 02 July 2018 - 01:52 PM, said:

gmat, that was a great article. DC, it exemplified what you were talking about in terms of bottom up. My beef with the DNC is that they should be identifying and supporting these organizations more than anything. Just getting folks the ID is more than half the battle to get them to vote.
Ah, “bottom-up.” This is where the GOP and allied groups have been working furiously for the last couple decades. There isn’t a race too local/insignificant for Party $$ to work some magic (You know some deep pockets are involved when you get robo-calls regarding a race for a seat on a county “soil and water conservation” board, seats that generally draw one candidate, who then runs unopposed). Even (perhaps more so??) in so-called blue oases (City & County Commissions deep blue), Dems seem impotent when it comes to races outside the immediate area. Of course, being surrounded by hard-core Trumpism, and considering the way things are drawn...

Blarg. Back less than 48 hours and I’m a grouch already.
Politics these days is show business. Elections are Dancing with the Stars with consequences. ~Rue Bella

(About fame) Living for likes, shares and follows is a form of validation. The question is whether it is also the source of our self esteem. If it is, we’re screwed. And, culturally, it seems as if it’s become more and more our shared value. ... Meringue is no longer a sweet and pretty topping but the body itself. ~Charles Perez

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