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Separation of Children from Asylum Seekers


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#1 AnBr

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 05:23 PM

I have not noticed much discussion of this here, so I am starting this thread.

Separating children from parents at the border isn’t just cruel. It’s torture

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In two speeches last week in the border states of Arizona and California, Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced that as a matter of enforcement, if an unauthorized migrant brings a child across the United States-Mexico border without documentation, “we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law. If you don’t like that, then don’t smuggle children over our border.”

This means undocumented children and parents will be separated — a tactic meant to deter migrant parents, including many asylum seekers, such as those who’ve traveled through Central America in a caravan in recent weeks, from crossing the border in the first place. Human rights organizations such as Amnesty International have argued that this policy change is inhumane, and it is. But evidence from developmental neuroscience suggests it is more than inhumane.

It’s also, by definition, torture.

And now the morally and that intellectually bereft POS AKA Beauregard is defending his position by citing the Bible.

Quote

“I would cite you to the Apostle Paul and his clear and wise command in Romans 13, to obey the laws of the government because God has ordained the government for his purposes,” the nation’s top law enforcement official said, The Washington Post reported. “Orderly and lawful processes are good in themselves. Consistent, fair application of the law is in itself a good and moral thing, and that protects the weak and protects the lawful.”

The passage referred was infamously used to justify Southern slavery but also authoritarian rule in Nazi Germany and South African apartheid.

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Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God

https://www.washingt...d-are-infamous/

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“Mark you this, Bassanio,
The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!
An evil soul producing holy witness
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart.
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!"

— William Shakespeare,
The Merchant of Venice,
Act 1, Scene 3
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#2 baw1064

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 08:25 PM

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Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God


That's right, J. Beauregard--and same sex marriage, marijuana, and Obamacare are God's will!
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#3 Rue Bella

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 08:45 PM

Except Obama was the anti-Christ, so he doesn't count.
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#4 baw1064

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 08:50 PM

View PostRue Bella, on 15 June 2018 - 08:45 PM, said:

Except Obama was the anti-Christ

Then why wasn't he President for 1000 years? That would have made McConnell's intransigence look pretty silly.
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#5 AnBr

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 10:08 AM

Once (if) sanity has been restored and there is a reckoning for these ICE and/or INS agents I wonder how many will try to pull the Nuremberg defense?
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#6 AnBr

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Posted 16 June 2018 - 10:13 AM

Posted Image
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#7 Probabilistic

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 12:51 PM

Posted Image

Seen from the right perspective, it's an act of Christian compassion: the gift of salvation.

That book seems to attract a lot of wicked people.

#8 JackD

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 01:00 PM

The passage he quoted from Paul says to obey the law; there is a law against kidnapping.

#9 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 03:26 PM

View PostAnBr, on 16 June 2018 - 10:08 AM, said:

Once (if) sanity has been restored and there is a reckoning for these ICE and/or INS agents I wonder how many will try to pull the Nuremberg defense?

I'm going to guess that they would have halfway-competent counsel. In other words, none will do it in so many words.
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#10 AnBr

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 10:12 PM

Posted Image Jim Wright
1 hr

Quote

The Nazis never saw themselves as villains.

You look at the horrifying atrocities they committed and you think they MUST have known they were the monsters.

They must have known.

But they didn't.

In fact, it was just the opposite. The Nazis thought they themselves were the VICTIMS.

That's how the Nazi party came to be in the first place, you know, how it rose to power. The Nazis convinced Germany that it had been victimized by the rest of the world. Had somehow lost its greatness, lost its place among nations. Disrespected. Treated unfairly. Nazis thought themselves victims. They thought the "true" German people were being persecuted by elitism. By liberalism. By intellectualism. By foreign influence. By multiculturalism. By a loss of manly vigor. By a dilution and/or contamination of racial purity. By unemployment and economic disadvantage. By a perception that they had lost their identity, their history, and moreover, their rights and privileges.

So, when they came to power, the Nazis didn't think of themselves as villains, rather they were convinced that they were heroes. They saw themselves righting all the supposed wrongs done to them. They saw themselves as restoring the might of Germany and forging a new civilization that would last a thousand years.

They firmly believed they were right.

Now, they knew they were doing terrible things, but they didn't think of it as terror. They thought they were righteous. They changed their country's laws to make themselves righteous. They changed the morality of their nation to make themselves righteous. They believed history would vindicate their actions and all the horror would be justified when they triumphed, when there was no more resistance. Because THEN people would understand, the rest of the world would understand. See, they believed that when the world looked upon the mighty works of Nazi engineering, the miracles of Nazi science, the purity and beauty and genetic superiority of the Aryan race, looked upon the order and especially the security of Nazi society, well, THEN the rest of the world would understand.

Not just understand, but be filled with envy.

They thought the rest of the world would admire them for what they had done.

They were blind to the horror they had created. Purposely so.

What they wanted most of all was the world's fear and respect -- for in their minds fear and respect were the same thing.

No, the Nazis never saw themselves as villains.

Villains never do.

They told themselves they were making their country great again, making the world a better place for themselves, a better people, and the atrocities they created were a temporary necessity, a means to an end on the path to greatness, and would be justified in the end.

That's how it happens.

Little by little, bit by bit, unaware, they become monsters.

Posted Image

Posted Image
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#11 AnBr

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 10:14 PM

Posted Image
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#12 DCoronata

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 05:42 AM

I'd heard Trump say his usually astonishingly stupid things on the subject:

"It's a Democratic law, the Democrats have to fix it."

1) Donny dear, there's no such thing as a "Democratic law" at least in terms of party- we don't get to pick and choose which laws are followed based on the party in power at the time they were crafted.
2) There is no law, we both know it. We ALL know it.
3) Even if there were a law, Republicans in Congress were in charge of legislation.
4) And even if there were a law, both parties get to vote on new legislation, but it has to be introduced and with Republicans in charge of both houses, they have to push votes to the floor.
5) And with majorities once again, they have to vote. You'd need at least 9 Republican senators to reach cloture, and at least 22 in the house (assuming all vote). AND THEN YOU HAVE TO SIGN IT.
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#13 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 06:31 AM

View PostAnBr, on 17 June 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:

Posted Image

And, under the leadership of President Trump, we CAN Make America Great Again!
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#14 Rue Bella

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 08:06 AM

Brought you by the party of family values.
What is wrong with these people? ~ PG

No longer politically correct

#15 DCoronata

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 09:38 AM

View PostRue Bella, on 18 June 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

Brought you by the party of family values.
Manson Family values.
Ambassador Spock: "There's an old Vulcan proverb, that only Nixon could go to China, and only Trump could screw up North Korea."

“Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”
“Do you believe we can trust you rabble with a Republic?"

#16 pnwguy

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 10:29 AM

View PostDCoronata, on 18 June 2018 - 09:38 AM, said:

Manson Family values.
Almost. But being the pro-life party, they won't rip the child from the womb.
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#17 LFC

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 11:00 AM

I heard the most mind-numbingly ignorant attempted defense of this hideous policy this morning. The situation was compared to what happens when anybody is arrested for a crime in this country since they too are separated from their children. Got that? Taking children who are in a strange land with nowhere to live, stuffing them in cages where they have to sleep on a concrete floor, and where they are unable to be touched (those are the rules) evening when upset and crying is the same as arresting one parent while the children continue to live in their own home or at least with a relative or friend to care for them. Virtually identical! Well, at least in Right-wingnutland
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#18 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 01:06 PM

You forgot the toddlers who have nobody to change their diapers.
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#19 drdredel

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 01:33 PM

I'm actually a bit confused by all this. For the Republicans, this is a PR disaster. I get that there's a vocal minority that hates Mexicans, but my guess is that somewhere around 70% of the U.S. population will see this as a really horrible mistake... so what are they hoping to achieve?
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Republicans have lost their sense of "common".

#20 DCoronata

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Posted 18 June 2018 - 01:41 PM

View Postdrdredel, on 18 June 2018 - 01:33 PM, said:

I'm actually a bit confused by all this. For the Republicans, this is a PR disaster. I get that there's a vocal minority that hates Mexicans, but my guess is that somewhere around 70% of the U.S. population will see this as a really horrible mistake... so what are they hoping to achieve?
The other 70% to change their minds?

Otherwise, yeah major fail.
Ambassador Spock: "There's an old Vulcan proverb, that only Nixon could go to China, and only Trump could screw up North Korea."

“Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”
“Do you believe we can trust you rabble with a Republic?"





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