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Citizenship Question to be Added to the Census


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#81 LFC

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 10:46 AM

View PostRich T Bikkies, on 11 July 2019 - 01:39 AM, said:

Is Barr smart? I think he could be.

A complete lack of morals, shame, and belief that you'll never face any real personal consequences can bring you a long, long way. Having smart people support you along the way as they profit from your personality helps as well.

I think Barr is smart, immoral, shameless, and definitely believes that not only will he ever face a real personal consequence but that he'll actually be rewarded for his actions. His entire career so far has proven him right.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#82 LFC

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 11:47 AM

The Manhattan judge is landing on the DOJ's patently obvious attempt to replace all the lawyers and retry the case.

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In a scalding order that called the Justice Department’s motion to change lawyers “patently deficient,” a federal judge in Manhattan on Tuesday blocked the move by the Justice Department to withdraw several of its attorneys from the census citizenship question case in New York.

With the exception of two DOJ lawyers who are withdrawing from the case because they have left their position at the Justice Department altogether, U.S. District Judge Jesse Furman is not letting the other attorneys withdraw because the department failed to provide “satisfactory reasons” for their exit from the case.

“Defendants provide no reasons, let alone ‘satisfactory reasons,’ for the substitution of counsel,” Furman said. Furman said that the government’s vague claim in its withdrawal motion that it did not expect the withdrawal to cause disruption to the proceedings was “not good enough, particularly given the circumstances of this case.”


Each attorney that would be leaving has to put their own ass on the line in writing. Note the word "each" below. If the members of the team all magically ended up resigning from the DOJ to get out of this case but gave another reason then they'd have to sit and hope that an investigation didn't pop up and destroy their legal careers. Lying under oath is a very serious offense, especially for an attorney.

Quote

“Measured against those standards, Defendants’ motion is patently deficient,” Furman said. He said that, in order to withdraw, the departing attorneys will need to each file an affidavit “stating ‘satisfactory reasons’ for withdrawing at this stage of the litigation” and consenting to submit to the court’s jurisdiction for any sanctions proceedings.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#83 LFC

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 11:50 AM

Another judge in Maryland is similarly landing on the DOJ.

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The Justice Department’s efforts to replace the legal team defending the census citizenship question hit another obstacle on Wednesday, this time in the Maryland case challenging the question.

U.S. District Judge George Hazel blocked the move by the DOJ to withdraw its original team of lawyers from the case. He said the department needed to provide more details about how it will prevent the shake-up from disrupting the case’s proceedings.

“As a practical matter, the Court cannot fathom how it would be possible, at this juncture, for a wholesale change in Defendants’ representation not to have some impact on the orderly resolution of these proceedings unless Defendants provide assurance of an orderly transition between the withdrawing attorneys and new counsel,” Hazel said.

He is requiring that the department guarantee that “one or more of the withdrawing attorneys are remaining available to the new DOJ team” and if not, then the department must provide a “detailed reasoning for why such an arrangement is untenable.”


The DOJ was also put on notice that swapping attorneys doesn't allow for a whole new defense strategy. They chose their defense. The judge has told them that they now have to stick with it.

Quote

He also gave the DOJ a veiled warning about what it does next in the case, while referencing certain claims that the original trial team made in the litigation.

“Defendants must realize that a change in counsel does not create a clean slate for a party to proceed as if prior representations made to the Court were not in fact made,” the judge said. “A new DOJ team will need to be prepared to address these, and other, previous representations made by the withdrawing attorneys at the appropriate juncture.”

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#84 LFC

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 12:30 PM

The Dems aren't just waiting around to see what the courts do.

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Congress will vote next week to hold Attorney General Bill Barr and Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross in contempt over their failure to comply with subpoenas over plans to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census, House Majority Leader Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-MD) announced on Thursday.

Scheduled for Tuesday, the vote will address Barr and Ross’s refusal to hand over documents subpoenaed by the House Oversight Committee.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#85 golden_valley

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 12:51 PM

View PostLFC, on 11 July 2019 - 12:30 PM, said:

The Dems aren't just waiting around to see what the courts do.

Trump isn't waiting around for no court...he'll just break out his Sharpie and issue an executive order (or something). What's the point of being president if you can't just say "Make it so."?

#86 JackD

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 01:41 PM

I guess the question is if he issues an order and the printing office follows it, what's the remedy to stop him? Shades of Andrew Jackson! There's impeachment of course and I suppose the Congress could cut off the money for the census but redistricting does need to be done. It certainly looks like it could be a constitutional crisis.

#87 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 02:43 PM

View PostJackD, on 11 July 2019 - 01:41 PM, said:

I guess the question is if he issues an order and the printing office follows it, what's the remedy to stop him? Shades of Andrew Jackson! There's impeachment of course and I suppose the Congress could cut off the money for the census but redistricting does need to be done. It certainly looks like it could be a constitutional crisis.

Trump has been a walking golf-cart-riding, talking, tweeting Constitutional crisis since November of 2016.

At one extreme, there's a lot of handwringing and moaning of "but what can we do?"

At the other, the court finds him in contempt and cuts the Administration off from all recourse to the courts while noting that if it can't jail POTUS it can certainly enclinken anyone who follows the order in question, citing the Nuremburg Doctrine -- with Marshalls [1] keeping an eye on the process. The Court could probably put a judicial lock on his personal assets in preparation for his paying out of pocket for expedited printing of the proper forms.

Once when I was a wee little thing I was advised by someone older and wiser, "Do not meddle in the affairs of Article 3 judges, for they are subtle and quick to anger. And if that mallet is only ceremonial, it represents something with more clout than Mjölnir."

As for redistricting, the rush is primarily on the Trump's side. It's mostly red States that stand to gain.

[1] Could be interesting if they're more loyal to the Do(in)J than to the courts.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
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These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
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#88 JackD

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 11:10 PM

Looks like a strategic withdrawal.

#89 LFC

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 03:44 PM

Yep, the DOJ officially folds.

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The Justice Department reached an agreement Tuesday with the groups challenging the census citizenship question in New York on language permanently blocking the question from being added to the 2020 census.

The proposed order said that the government is “permanently” blocked not just from including the question on the survey forms, but also from “delaying the process of printing the 2020 decennial census questionnaire after June 30, 2019 for the purpose of including a citizenship question” and otherwise “asking a citizenship question as part of the 2020 decennial census.”

U.S. District Judge Jesse Furman signed the order later Tuesday.


Meanwhile the ACLU ain't letting go as well they shouldn't. This was a criminal act in DOJ clothing from the get-go. Here are some of the details of the depth and breadth of the lying with the rest at the link. Every one of them needs to be disbarred at the very least.

Quote

The ACLU has won its legal war with the Trump administration over a census citizenship question, but it’s not backing down from its demand that certain administration officials be sanctioned for allegedly false testimony in the case.

In a court filing Tuesday evening, the ACLU alleged that top Trump administration officials in the Justice Department and Commerce Department “engaged in litigation conduct that is nothing less than a fraud on the Court.”

“Through the use of false or misleading testimony, they obscured evidence suggesting that the true purpose of Secretary Ross’s decision to add a citizenship question to the 2020 Census—suppressing the political power of minority immigrant communities,” the filing said.

The ACLU is requesting that the court order 60 days of discovery — or let the ACLU piggyback on the discovery that may move forward in a separate census case — “to determine the scope of potentially sanctionable conduct and the identities of the culpable parties.”

Among the officials the ACLU is accusing of “false and misleading testimony” is DOJ official John Gore, who led the Department’s civil rights division while the administration was considering adding the question and who penned the official justification — which the Supreme Court has ruled was pretextual — for why the question was needed.

Additionally, the challengers said that Mark Neuman, who served as an outside advisor for the Commerce Department on the issue, outright “lied” in his deposition for the case.

Both are accused of obscuring the role that the now-deceased GOP gerrymandering consultant Thomas Hofeller played in allegedly crafting the bogus rationale for the question.

However, the conduct raised in the filing goes beyond what was just revealed about Hofeller, whose private files made it to the challengers’ hands only in May.

The filing suggests that James Uthmeier, an attorney who worked for the Commerce Department during its census change efforts, may have misled the court about his contacts with the White House about the census citizenship question issue, which he admitted in an interview with Congress.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#90 LFC

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 04:53 PM

Barr and Ross are tapdancing as House Dems are lining up to vote on a charge of criminal contempt of Congress.

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Attorney General Bill Barr and Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross asked Speaker Nancy Pelosi to delay a House vote scheduled for Wednesday evening holding them in criminal contempt of Congress for not complying with census-related subpoenas.

The letter reiterated claims by the administration — made in previous back-and-forths about the subpoenas — that it could not turn over the requested documents due to legal privileges that have been asserted for them.

“There is no information to hide; there are institutional integrities to preserve,” the letter said

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#91 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 05:45 PM

View PostLFC, on 17 July 2019 - 04:53 PM, said:

Barr and Ross are tapdancing as House Dems are lining up to vote on a charge of criminal contempt of Congress.

It's all just theater because 45 will pardon them.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#92 LFC

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 10:53 AM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 17 July 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:

It's all just theater because 45 will pardon them.

True dat but contempt it is, nevertheless.

Quote

The House voted 230-198 on Wednesday to hold Attorney General Bill Barr and Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross in contempt for their failure to comply with subpoenas in lawmakers’ probe into the census citizenship question.

The vote was largely along party lines, with just Rep. Justin Amash (I-MI) joining the Democrats in favor the vote. It marks the first time the full House has voted to hold members of the Trump administration in criminal contempt. The vote sets the stage for the House to go to court to get the census-related documents lawmakers seek.

The Trump administration lost the legal fight over adding the citizenship question to the 2020 census and is planning to collect citizenship data from existing government records.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said earlier Thursday that the House will continue to “hold the administration accountable for the policy decision” to add the question.

The House Oversight Committee had subpoenaed John Gore — a Justice Department official who wrote the official justification for the question that the Supreme Court has since declared pretextual — for testimony. In a voluntary interview, he declined to answer several of the committee’s questions and the Justice Department blocked him from sitting for a compelled deposition after the committee refused to let DOJ counsel join Gore in the session.

The committee is also seeking several Commerce Department documents that have been withheld — both in the litigation over the question and in the congressional probe — having to do with officials’ efforts to get the Justice Department to request the question.

Among the documents requested are unredacted versions emails where Ross pressured his aides to find a way to get the question added, well before the formal DOJ request, as well as a memo a Commerce official shared with Gore as he was working on the request letter.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#93 LFC

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 10:19 AM

More shadiness from William Barr and Trump's DOJ. In Alabama (what a surprise) they're suing to ensure immigrants don't count in the allocation of Congressional districts despite the fact that they have for a long, long time. Here's what this dirtbag is up to now.

Quote

The Justice Department is ostensibly defending the Census Bureau’s current rule. However, the judge overseeing the case himself noted in an opinion on a procedural matter that the government’s defense seemed “rather halfhearted.”

The states and cities seeking to intervene pointed to both Barr’s comments and the judge’s “halfhearted” remark as reason to allow them to get involved. They also noted the federal government’s failure to bring up a particular defense to the lawsuit: specifically that the argument Alabama is now asserting for excluding undocumented immigrants was not among those presented to the Census Bureau during the notice-and-comment period for the current regime.

Suspicions that President Trump’s Justice Department could not be trusted to defend the Bureau’s current policy have long lingered and already some individual voters and local governments have successfully intervened to defend the inclusion of undocumented immigrants in the count.

The states that are seeking to join those defendant-intervenors are New York, California, Colorado, Connecticut, the District of Columbia, Illinois, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia and Washington. Nine cities and counties also joined the new motion to intervene as did the US Conference of Mayors.

So Barr is unwilling to do his job because his boss told him not to. Another nail in the coffin of American democracy.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#94 LFC

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 11:41 AM

Despite their loss in court the Trump administration is still at it. They are trying to "estimate" citizenship so it can be used for redistricting purposes. This is a Republican wet dream. Of course you can bet their "estimates" will be as accurate as their voter purging lists.

Quote

The Trump administration may have lost its bid to include a citizenship question on the 2020 census at the Supreme Court in June, but it’s still trying to collect citizenship data to use in redistricting and advantage Republican electoral maps.

The Census Bureau announced Tuesday that it has asked states to voluntarily turn over driver’s license records, which typically include citizenship data, to determine the citizenship status of the US population.

The move came at the direction of Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, who quietly instructed the Census Bureau in July to estimate citizenship data that “states may use in redistricting,” according to an administrative filing first reported by NPR.

The administration was not so transparent about its motivations for collecting the data in court, where it argued that the data would instead aid the Department of Justice’s enforcement of the prohibitions against racial discrimination in voting.

That rationale, the Supreme Court ruled in June, was only a “pretext — essentially a lie offered after the fact to justify adding the question — rather than a real reason for making the decision,” as Dara Lind wrote for Vox. Had the administration decided to continue pursuing the citizenship question, it would have had to race to support its decision with more valid reasoning to print the census forms on time.

President Donald Trump ultimately decided against doing so, instead issuing an executive order in July that instructed the Census Bureau to estimate citizenship data using enhanced state administrative records. The executive order also authorizes the Bureau to collect more data from US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, US Customs and Border Protection and US Citizenship and Immigration Services in an attempt to identify the citizenship status of more people.

States currently draw electoral maps based on total population, breaking up equally sized districts. But Trump suggested when announcing the executive order that citizenship data could be used to instead draw electoral districts in 2021 based on where eligible voters live, as legislators in Texas, Arizona, Missouri, and Nebraska have already sought.

“Some states may want to draw state and local legislative districts, based upon the voter-eligible population,” he said.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#95 LFC

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 01:46 PM

There is now more evidence that Republicans attempted to weaponize the census specifically to further their gerrymandering efforts.

Quote

A now-deceased GOP gerrymandering expert was even more involved in the Trump administration’s failed attempt to add a census citizenship question than was previously known, according to new evidence released Tuesday from House Democrats’ investigation into the move.

The evidence was released as a federal judge considers sanctioning the Trump administration for obscuring the role of the late gerrymandering expert, Thomas Hofeller, while the move to add the question was litigated in court.

U.S. District Judge Jesse Furman has not ruled on the sanctions request, so the question’s legal challengers will have the opportunity to flag the evidence for him.

The new evidence includes communications between Hofeller and Mark Neuman, a former Census Bureau official who was serving as an outside advisor to Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross as he was pushing to get the question added.

The Supreme Court ultimately ruled that the reason Ross cited for adding the question — that it would enhance enforcement of the Voting Rights Act — was bogus. Because the administration did not have time to find a legitimate purpose for adding the question, it will not be on the 2020 census.

Only after the Supreme Court heard the case, but before it ruled on the case, did the question’s legal challengers get a hint that Hofeller had played a role. The new evidence provides a more direct link.

“Before we had bread crumbs, and now we have a straight line,” Dale Ho, the lead ACLU lawyer who led one of the legal challenges to the question, told TPM on Tuesday.

“It is highly problematic, to say the least, that we didn’t get the documents from discovery,” Ho said.


This sounds like the basis for another article of impeachment.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#96 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 02:35 PM

View PostLFC, on 12 November 2019 - 01:46 PM, said:

This sounds like the basis for another article of impeachment.

IANAL, but there's a point where a court can rule that a party's assertions to the Court are presumed unreliable. IMHO we're well past that point.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#97 golden_valley

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 02:56 PM

Party registration figures in California as of Oct. 2019 are:

Democratic Party 8,956.480
Republican Party 4,793,833
No Party Preference 5,435,431

If this sort of thing is happening across the country gerrymandering is the only hope for one party to have influence.

#98 LFC

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 03:10 PM

View Postgolden_valley, on 12 November 2019 - 02:56 PM, said:

If this sort of thing is happening across the country gerrymandering is the only hope for one party to have influence.

Or returning to sanity, willingness to negotiate, and an actual desire to govern, but then that's crazy talk.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#99 baw1064

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 04:01 PM

View Postgolden_valley, on 12 November 2019 - 02:56 PM, said:

Party registration figures in California as of Oct. 2019 are:

Democratic Party 8,956.480
Republican Party 4,793,833
No Party Preference 5,435,431

If this sort of thing is happening across the country gerrymandering is the only hope for one party to have influence.

Can they stick Nunes and McCarthy in the same district after 2020?
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#100 LFC

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Posted 12 November 2019 - 04:07 PM

View Postbaw1064, on 12 November 2019 - 04:01 PM, said:

Can they stick Nunes and McCarthy in the same district after 2020?

And let them hold a "debate" cage match with knives. I'd pay to watch that!
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer





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