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Citizenship Question to be Added to the Census


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#81 LFC

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 10:46 AM

View PostRich T Bikkies, on 11 July 2019 - 01:39 AM, said:

Is Barr smart? I think he could be.

A complete lack of morals, shame, and belief that you'll never face any real personal consequences can bring you a long, long way. Having smart people support you along the way as they profit from your personality helps as well.

I think Barr is smart, immoral, shameless, and definitely believes that not only will he ever face a real personal consequence but that he'll actually be rewarded for his actions. His entire career so far has proven him right.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#82 LFC

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 11:47 AM

The Manhattan judge is landing on the DOJ's patently obvious attempt to replace all the lawyers and retry the case.

Quote

In a scalding order that called the Justice Department’s motion to change lawyers “patently deficient,” a federal judge in Manhattan on Tuesday blocked the move by the Justice Department to withdraw several of its attorneys from the census citizenship question case in New York.

With the exception of two DOJ lawyers who are withdrawing from the case because they have left their position at the Justice Department altogether, U.S. District Judge Jesse Furman is not letting the other attorneys withdraw because the department failed to provide “satisfactory reasons” for their exit from the case.

“Defendants provide no reasons, let alone ‘satisfactory reasons,’ for the substitution of counsel,” Furman said. Furman said that the government’s vague claim in its withdrawal motion that it did not expect the withdrawal to cause disruption to the proceedings was “not good enough, particularly given the circumstances of this case.”


Each attorney that would be leaving has to put their own ass on the line in writing. Note the word "each" below. If the members of the team all magically ended up resigning from the DOJ to get out of this case but gave another reason then they'd have to sit and hope that an investigation didn't pop up and destroy their legal careers. Lying under oath is a very serious offense, especially for an attorney.

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“Measured against those standards, Defendants’ motion is patently deficient,” Furman said. He said that, in order to withdraw, the departing attorneys will need to each file an affidavit “stating ‘satisfactory reasons’ for withdrawing at this stage of the litigation” and consenting to submit to the court’s jurisdiction for any sanctions proceedings.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#83 LFC

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 11:50 AM

Another judge in Maryland is similarly landing on the DOJ.

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The Justice Department’s efforts to replace the legal team defending the census citizenship question hit another obstacle on Wednesday, this time in the Maryland case challenging the question.

U.S. District Judge George Hazel blocked the move by the DOJ to withdraw its original team of lawyers from the case. He said the department needed to provide more details about how it will prevent the shake-up from disrupting the case’s proceedings.

“As a practical matter, the Court cannot fathom how it would be possible, at this juncture, for a wholesale change in Defendants’ representation not to have some impact on the orderly resolution of these proceedings unless Defendants provide assurance of an orderly transition between the withdrawing attorneys and new counsel,” Hazel said.

He is requiring that the department guarantee that “one or more of the withdrawing attorneys are remaining available to the new DOJ team” and if not, then the department must provide a “detailed reasoning for why such an arrangement is untenable.”


The DOJ was also put on notice that swapping attorneys doesn't allow for a whole new defense strategy. They chose their defense. The judge has told them that they now have to stick with it.

Quote

He also gave the DOJ a veiled warning about what it does next in the case, while referencing certain claims that the original trial team made in the litigation.

“Defendants must realize that a change in counsel does not create a clean slate for a party to proceed as if prior representations made to the Court were not in fact made,” the judge said. “A new DOJ team will need to be prepared to address these, and other, previous representations made by the withdrawing attorneys at the appropriate juncture.”

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#84 LFC

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 12:30 PM

The Dems aren't just waiting around to see what the courts do.

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Congress will vote next week to hold Attorney General Bill Barr and Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross in contempt over their failure to comply with subpoenas over plans to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census, House Majority Leader Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-MD) announced on Thursday.

Scheduled for Tuesday, the vote will address Barr and Ross’s refusal to hand over documents subpoenaed by the House Oversight Committee.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#85 golden_valley

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 12:51 PM

View PostLFC, on 11 July 2019 - 12:30 PM, said:

The Dems aren't just waiting around to see what the courts do.

Trump isn't waiting around for no court...he'll just break out his Sharpie and issue an executive order (or something). What's the point of being president if you can't just say "Make it so."?

#86 JackD

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 01:41 PM

I guess the question is if he issues an order and the printing office follows it, what's the remedy to stop him? Shades of Andrew Jackson! There's impeachment of course and I suppose the Congress could cut off the money for the census but redistricting does need to be done. It certainly looks like it could be a constitutional crisis.

#87 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 02:43 PM

View PostJackD, on 11 July 2019 - 01:41 PM, said:

I guess the question is if he issues an order and the printing office follows it, what's the remedy to stop him? Shades of Andrew Jackson! There's impeachment of course and I suppose the Congress could cut off the money for the census but redistricting does need to be done. It certainly looks like it could be a constitutional crisis.

Trump has been a walking golf-cart-riding, talking, tweeting Constitutional crisis since November of 2016.

At one extreme, there's a lot of handwringing and moaning of "but what can we do?"

At the other, the court finds him in contempt and cuts the Administration off from all recourse to the courts while noting that if it can't jail POTUS it can certainly enclinken anyone who follows the order in question, citing the Nuremburg Doctrine -- with Marshalls [1] keeping an eye on the process. The Court could probably put a judicial lock on his personal assets in preparation for his paying out of pocket for expedited printing of the proper forms.

Once when I was a wee little thing I was advised by someone older and wiser, "Do not meddle in the affairs of Article 3 judges, for they are subtle and quick to anger. And if that mallet is only ceremonial, it represents something with more clout than Mjölnir."

As for redistricting, the rush is primarily on the Trump's side. It's mostly red States that stand to gain.

[1] Could be interesting if they're more loyal to the Do(in)J than to the courts.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
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#88 JackD

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 11:10 PM

Looks like a strategic withdrawal.

#89 LFC

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 03:44 PM

Yep, the DOJ officially folds.

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The Justice Department reached an agreement Tuesday with the groups challenging the census citizenship question in New York on language permanently blocking the question from being added to the 2020 census.

The proposed order said that the government is “permanently” blocked not just from including the question on the survey forms, but also from “delaying the process of printing the 2020 decennial census questionnaire after June 30, 2019 for the purpose of including a citizenship question” and otherwise “asking a citizenship question as part of the 2020 decennial census.”

U.S. District Judge Jesse Furman signed the order later Tuesday.


Meanwhile the ACLU ain't letting go as well they shouldn't. This was a criminal act in DOJ clothing from the get-go. Here are some of the details of the depth and breadth of the lying with the rest at the link. Every one of them needs to be disbarred at the very least.

Quote

The ACLU has won its legal war with the Trump administration over a census citizenship question, but it’s not backing down from its demand that certain administration officials be sanctioned for allegedly false testimony in the case.

In a court filing Tuesday evening, the ACLU alleged that top Trump administration officials in the Justice Department and Commerce Department “engaged in litigation conduct that is nothing less than a fraud on the Court.”

“Through the use of false or misleading testimony, they obscured evidence suggesting that the true purpose of Secretary Ross’s decision to add a citizenship question to the 2020 Census—suppressing the political power of minority immigrant communities,” the filing said.

The ACLU is requesting that the court order 60 days of discovery — or let the ACLU piggyback on the discovery that may move forward in a separate census case — “to determine the scope of potentially sanctionable conduct and the identities of the culpable parties.”

Among the officials the ACLU is accusing of “false and misleading testimony” is DOJ official John Gore, who led the Department’s civil rights division while the administration was considering adding the question and who penned the official justification — which the Supreme Court has ruled was pretextual — for why the question was needed.

Additionally, the challengers said that Mark Neuman, who served as an outside advisor for the Commerce Department on the issue, outright “lied” in his deposition for the case.

Both are accused of obscuring the role that the now-deceased GOP gerrymandering consultant Thomas Hofeller played in allegedly crafting the bogus rationale for the question.

However, the conduct raised in the filing goes beyond what was just revealed about Hofeller, whose private files made it to the challengers’ hands only in May.

The filing suggests that James Uthmeier, an attorney who worked for the Commerce Department during its census change efforts, may have misled the court about his contacts with the White House about the census citizenship question issue, which he admitted in an interview with Congress.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#90 LFC

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 04:53 PM

Barr and Ross are tapdancing as House Dems are lining up to vote on a charge of criminal contempt of Congress.

Quote

Attorney General Bill Barr and Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross asked Speaker Nancy Pelosi to delay a House vote scheduled for Wednesday evening holding them in criminal contempt of Congress for not complying with census-related subpoenas.

The letter reiterated claims by the administration — made in previous back-and-forths about the subpoenas — that it could not turn over the requested documents due to legal privileges that have been asserted for them.

“There is no information to hide; there are institutional integrities to preserve,” the letter said

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#91 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 05:45 PM

View PostLFC, on 17 July 2019 - 04:53 PM, said:

Barr and Ross are tapdancing as House Dems are lining up to vote on a charge of criminal contempt of Congress.

It's all just theater because 45 will pardon them.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#92 LFC

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 10:53 AM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 17 July 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:

It's all just theater because 45 will pardon them.

True dat but contempt it is, nevertheless.

Quote

The House voted 230-198 on Wednesday to hold Attorney General Bill Barr and Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross in contempt for their failure to comply with subpoenas in lawmakers’ probe into the census citizenship question.

The vote was largely along party lines, with just Rep. Justin Amash (I-MI) joining the Democrats in favor the vote. It marks the first time the full House has voted to hold members of the Trump administration in criminal contempt. The vote sets the stage for the House to go to court to get the census-related documents lawmakers seek.

The Trump administration lost the legal fight over adding the citizenship question to the 2020 census and is planning to collect citizenship data from existing government records.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said earlier Thursday that the House will continue to “hold the administration accountable for the policy decision” to add the question.

The House Oversight Committee had subpoenaed John Gore — a Justice Department official who wrote the official justification for the question that the Supreme Court has since declared pretextual — for testimony. In a voluntary interview, he declined to answer several of the committee’s questions and the Justice Department blocked him from sitting for a compelled deposition after the committee refused to let DOJ counsel join Gore in the session.

The committee is also seeking several Commerce Department documents that have been withheld — both in the litigation over the question and in the congressional probe — having to do with officials’ efforts to get the Justice Department to request the question.

Among the documents requested are unredacted versions emails where Ross pressured his aides to find a way to get the question added, well before the formal DOJ request, as well as a memo a Commerce official shared with Gore as he was working on the request letter.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer





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