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How the GOP Rigs Elections


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#1 AnBr

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 11:16 AM

https://www.rollings...k-money-w515664

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The gerrymandering in Wisconsin, which experts call among the most extreme in U.S. history, is but one part of Republicans' stealth plan to stay in office. Since Gov. Scott Walker and the Republican Legislature took power, they've also introduced some of the country's harshest voting restrictions, passing laws that make it harder for Democratic-leaning constituencies to register to vote and cast ballots. At the same time, the state has become the "Wild West of dark money," according to Lisa Graves, a senior fellow at the Madison-based Center for Media and Democracy, with Republican politicians like Walker raising unprecedented sums from billionaire donors to finance their campaigns.

"All three of these things have to be seen as part of a whole," says Eric Holder, Barack Obama's attorney general, who founded the National Democratic Redistricting Committee in 2016 to challenge Republican gerrymandering efforts. "Unregulated dark money combined with these voter-ID laws combined with gerrymandering is inconsistent with how our nation's system is supposed to be set up. American citizens ought to be concerned about the state of our democracy. We could end up with a system where a well-financed minority that has views inconsistent with the vast majority of the American people runs this country."

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#2 gmat

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 01:53 PM

Gerrymandering and dark money, yeah.

Voter ID laws, no.

Just register, get the ID, show up, and vote.

Here’s a thought problem: The government announces a new program: if you show up at a specific place, between 0600 and 1900, on a specific day, with a certain ID (and having registered for the program ahead of time), you will receive $5000 cash.

What do you think turnout would be?

#3 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 02:11 PM

View Postgmat, on 10 February 2018 - 01:53 PM, said:

Gerrymandering and dark money, yeah.

Voter ID laws, no.

Just register, get the ID, show up, and vote.

Here’s a thought problem: The government announces a new program: if you show up at a specific place, between 0600 and 1900, on a specific day, with a certain ID (and having registered for the program ahead of time), you will receive $5000 cash.

What do you think turnout would be?

I don't Know, but I bet some people without cars won’t make it, and some people who can’t get off work without being fired won’t make it either.

Our voting rates are dismal on any case, working to discourage more people makes no sense (unless your party benefits from low turnout).
Trump delenda est.
GOP delenda est.
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#4 gmat

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 09:03 AM

Sure, so turnout wouldn’t be 100%. I’d guess 98%. How about if it wasn’t $5000, but just a voucher for some free shit atthe 7-11? 85% would have the required ID by next weekend.

Voter ID laws increase the effort, the cost if you will, of voting. Then it’s down to the eligible voter deciding if it’s worth the effort.

I’m amazed that after Trump’s campaign messaging about Latinos, Latino turnout was <48%. Activists need to forget about all tha Critical Race Theory pseudoscience bullshit until after they figure out how to get out the vote.

#5 J-CA

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 09:32 AM

View Postgmat, on 11 February 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

Sure, so turnout wouldn’t be 100%. I’d guess 98%. How about if it wasn’t $5000, but just a voucher for some free shit atthe 7-11? 85% would have the required ID by next weekend.

Voter ID laws increase the effort, the cost if you will, of voting. Then it’s down to the eligible voter deciding if it’s worth the effort.
This is bullshit on a few different levels.
1. Your "free shit at 7-11" argument is just empty talk, you have no evidence to back it up. Bring evidence to the discussion.
2. Increasing the effort required to vote inherently creates tiers of citizenship, it doesn't matter how much or how little the increase is, it imposes an economic cost on people and this advantages people with money over people without money. Running around pointing fingers at individuals who didn't vote and saying the problem is that they are lazy is fun moral posturing, and that is about it.
3. Inherent in this discussion is the assumption that the old folks who so consistently vote are somehow "not lazy" and as such should be held is some higher moral esteem. But that is also bullshit. Older people have a whole host of advantages in voting, they are less likely to have moved, more likely to have accumulated the required ID simply by accident or necessity over time, they have more economic freedom to solve this problem because of a larger base of assets to leverage to solve problems. Most importantly being old is mostly pretty boring, voting is literally a social activity to fill one day in a year or two - disentangling the "free shit at 7-11" factors from the social responsibility factors in encouraging old people voting is very difficult.

And let's not pretend that these laws are not unfair:
https://www.jsonline...many/321680001/
The people listed in this article were all clearly valid voters and put in far more effort that most voters ever will in trying to vote and were denied the opportunity. It is just stupid.
I am the burrito until someone hands me to a philosopher.

#6 J-CA

    Probably in one of my drunken stupors..

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 09:37 AM

The Republicans in places like Wisconsin are creating a time bomb for themselves with this, by outperforming their actual demographics via cheating instead of moderating their platform when they run out of rope and the Democrats take over everything they are all going to find themselves in the California situation. I don't know exactly when it will happen where but a progressive wave is going to wash over State Legislatures at some point. It will be cold comfort to all the people having their lives screwed up right now by these jerks.
I am the burrito until someone hands me to a philosopher.

#7 gmat

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 10:47 AM

View PostJ-CA, on 11 February 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:


This is bullshit on a few different levels.
1. Your "free shit at 7-11" argument is just empty talk, you have no evidence to back it up. Bring evidence to the discussion.
2. Increasing the effort required to vote inherently creates tiers of citizenship, it doesn't matter how much or how little the increase is, it imposes an economic cost on people and this advantages people with money over people without money. Running around pointing fingers at individuals who didn't vote and saying the problem is that they are lazy is fun moral posturing, and that is about it.
3. Inherent in this discussion is the assumption that the old folks who so consistently vote are somehow "not lazy" and as such should be held is some higher moral esteem. But that is also bullshit. Older people have a whole host of advantages in voting, they are less likely to have moved, more likely to have accumulated the required ID simply by accident or necessity over time, they have more economic freedom to solve this problem because of a larger base of assets to leverage to solve problems. Most importantly being old is mostly pretty boring, voting is literally a social activity to fill one day in a year or two - disentangling the "free shit at 7-11" factors from the social responsibility factors in encouraging old people voting is very difficult.

And let's not pretend that these laws are not unfair:
https://www.jsonline...many/321680001/
The people listed in this article were all clearly valid voters and put in far more effort that most voters ever will in trying to vote and were denied the opportunity. It is just stupid.

Bullshit. Sounds like excuses to me.

Republican voter suppression tactics are like the weather, or a bad ref in a soccer match.

The antidote is to do what it takes takes to beat them anyway. Take all that energy spent whining about it and put it into voter registration and ID drives, like they did in AL

There are 4.8 million eligible Latino voters in Texas. 1.7 million turned out in ‘16. What’s that about?



#8 AnBr

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 11:11 AM

View PostJ-CA, on 11 February 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

3. Inherent in this discussion is the assumption that the old folks who so consistently vote are somehow "not lazy" and as such should be held is some higher moral esteem. But that is also bullshit. Older people have a whole host of advantages in voting, they are less likely to have moved, more likely to have accumulated the required ID simply by accident or necessity over time, they have more economic freedom to solve this problem because of a larger base of assets to leverage to solve problems. Most importantly being old is mostly pretty boring, voting is literally a social activity to fill one day in a year or two - disentangling the "free shit at 7-11" factors from the social responsibility factors in encouraging old people voting is very difficult.

Not to mention that many older people may be retired or make more and have more accumulated personal days, etc. thus better able to get away form work on election day. Working class people often have little latitude to find time to vote. Republicans in Ohio have pulled voting machines from Democratic leaning areas to create wait times of hours. A younger working man can't afford to spend that much time to vote if he may lose his job or have to use an unpaid sick day.
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#9 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 11:21 AM

Look at the States that have -- or not -- laws requiring employers to give employees time off (even if unpaid) to vote. Not all are blue; some have constitutions dating back to when they weren't big on vote suppression.

Also look at some States that have taken advantage of modern technology to let people cast votes close to work, even if the vote itself is registered in their home precinct. This is more likely to represent current conditions, but voting close to work can be hard to figure in the electoral calculus.
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#10 nuser

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 02:45 PM

Recalling companies asking or suggesting strongly that their workers
should vote for Willard Romney when he was running for
President. And the name for that is?


#11 golden_valley

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 05:57 PM

There are lots of reasons that people don't vote. Many don't think voting has any real impact on how the country works. Many have no idea how government works and aren't about to start trying to learn now. Many don't feel they know enough about what's on the ballot. Many see a long ballot as some sort of unwelcome test that they don't have the answers for.

People are intimidated by the mere act of going to a place to vote. They don't know what to expect and don't want to look or feel stupid. People with "foreign" names think they might be harassed or otherwise given a hard time and they'd just don't want to deal with it. And they don't just think it...it has happened, so they know it.

#12 nuser

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 06:53 PM

Yes of course ,but that is far from the only reason people did not vote!
There are people all over the world that do not vote because they think
their vote will not make a difference. Coersion manipulation gerrymandering
Insinuation and outright lies by the GOP plus lack of basic knowledge of
how politics work and not seeing Trump for what he is! BTW. Paul Ryan
is absolutely clueless.


#13 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:48 AM

In case anybody is in a good mood on a Monday:

http://www.lawyersgu...ecial-elections

“Hey, if it looks like we’ll start losing elections, let’s just not have any more!”

Trump delenda est.
GOP delenda est.
Resist!

#14 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:54 AM

Let's see how that plays in the Wisconsin courts. Not much chance of getting him booted for it, but as with Pennsylvania there may be a good chance of the court ordering him to follow the law and if he refuses doing it for him. I wonder how the Lieutenant Governor would be with the Court declaring him unable (or unwilling) to perform his duties and delegating the job to the LG.
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#15 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 09:57 AM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 12 February 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

Let's see how that plays in the Wisconsin courts. Not much chance of getting him booted for it, but as with Pennsylvania there may be a good chance of the court ordering him to follow the law and if he refuses doing it for him. I wonder how the Lieutenant Governor would be with the Court declaring him unable (or unwilling) to perform his duties and delegating the job to the LG.

Noted in comments, the WI Supreme Court are mostly Koch approved ... and voted to stop inquired into Walkers’ other issues.
Trump delenda est.
GOP delenda est.
Resist!

#16 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:05 AM

View PostProgressive whisperer, on 12 February 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

Noted in comments, the WI Supreme Court are mostly Koch approved ... and voted to stop inquired into Walkers’ other issues.

On the other hand, Alito nixed the emergency stay of the ruling in Pennsylvania. Sometimes shit is so out there that even hard-core party loyalists have to draw the line.
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#17 LFC

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:34 AM

View PostProgressive whisperer, on 12 February 2018 - 09:48 AM, said:

“Hey, if it looks like we’ll start losing elections, let’s just not have any more!”

Not really much different than "Hey, if it looks like we'll lose a Supreme Court seat let's just not vote on it ... until our guy gets in." It's now part of the Republican DNA.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#18 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:36 AM

I’m looking for a solution that doesn’t need tumbrels...

Trump delenda est.
GOP delenda est.
Resist!

#19 andydp

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:36 AM

View Postgolden_valley, on 11 February 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:

There are lots of reasons that people don't vote. Many don't think voting has any real impact on how the country works. Many have no idea how government works and aren't about to start trying to learn now. Many don't feel they know enough about what's on the ballot. Many see a long ballot as some sort of unwelcome test that they don't have the answers for.

Too true. Fortunately, we engraved the duty to vote in both our kids. They're both registered and vote in their local districts. My son tells me when he goes in, the poll watchers seems surprised at his age (35).
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

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Obamacare took my guns away and put me in a FEMA reeducation camp.

Anonymous

If you've got public schools paid for by taxpayers, you're in a socialist nation. If you have public roads paid for by taxpayers, socialist nation. If you've got public defense (police, fire, military, coast guard) paid for by tax dollars, socialist nation. If you're in a nation that has nationalized or localized delivery of services that are not paid for by users alone, you're in a socialist nation- the only question is how socialist. As I see it, we have the military pay to protecting the shipping lanes for our fuel needs which makes up very socialist. In a capitalist nation, the people supplying the oil would pay for their own defense force.


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#20 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 03:19 PM

View PostProgressive whisperer, on 12 February 2018 - 11:36 AM, said:

I’m looking for a solution that doesn’t need tumbrels...

So are many others. Up to now, unsuccessfully.
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO





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