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The US government is set to borrow nearly $1 trillion this year, an 84% increase from last year


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#1 baw1064

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 11:46 PM

The Party of Fiscal Conservatism hits a home run. Not that this will surprise any of you.

https://www.washingt...m=.b8e9f912d701
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#2 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 08:33 AM

Plenty of quotes from the Both Sides Do It set who blame the deficit equally on Republicans and Democrats:

Quote

Both parties claim they want to be “fiscally responsible,” but Goldwein says they both pass legislation that adds to the debt.

And include the chart which conveniently starts in 2002 rather than 2000 or 1999:
Posted Image
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#3 Sinan

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 09:55 AM

Since the right now endorses deficits, maybe we can finally have a conversation about money that resembles reality. The government can never, ever run out of money it creates itself. It does not need tax revenues to spend money either. How many continuous deficit years do we need to see before all of us finally accept reality?
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#4 baw1064

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 05:59 PM

View PostSinan, on 04 February 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

Since the right now endorses deficits, maybe we can finally have a conversation about money that resembles reality. The government can never, ever run out of money it creates itself. It does not need tax revenues to spend money either. How many continuous deficit years do we need to see before all of us finally accept reality?

Well, Zimbabwe technically never ran out of money either, although at some point it became of little use to the average person there.
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#5 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:12 PM

Cheney publicly declared that Regan proved deficits didn’t matter during W’s term. That lasted until a Democrat got in office.
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#6 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 06:14 PM

Brad DeLong and Larry Summers published a paper back, oh, six years ago which showed that under a given set of conditions (growth vs. long term interest on the debt, rate of return on infrastructure, etc.) there was a sustainable deficit that could go on forever without causing undesirable inflation.

Socialism!!!!!

Of course, now that Trump has (re)discovered the secret formula that Bush43 found for keeping deficits from mattering ...
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#7 baw1064

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 08:11 PM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 04 February 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

Brad DeLong and Larry Summers published a paper back, oh, six years ago which showed that under a given set of conditions (growth vs. long term interest on the debt, rate of return on infrastructure, etc.) there was a sustainable deficit that could go on forever without causing undesirable inflation.

I'd argue that none of those conditions are being met currently. Long term interest rates are indeed low, but that can change quickly if bond investors lose confidence in U.S. fiscal policy (as they seemed to be doing last week).
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#8 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 04 February 2018 - 08:26 PM

Return on infrastructure investment is still pretty good, partly because we're so deep in deferred maintenance that we're paying more for band-aids than for real repairs.
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#9 andydp

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 07:38 AM

View PostProgressive whisperer, on 04 February 2018 - 06:12 PM, said:

Cheney publicly declared that Regan proved deficits didn’t matter during W’s term. That lasted until a Democrat got in office.

You all keep forgetting the mantra:

Democrat debt = Satan's spawn. GOP debt = Best thing since canned beer
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#10 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 08:54 AM

View Postandydp, on 05 February 2018 - 07:38 AM, said:



You all keep forgetting the mantra:

Democrat debt = Satan's spawn. GOP debt = Best thing since canned beer

Democrat debt goes to “those people” (loosely defined as anyone but the GOP donor class), where as the GOP goes into debt by slashing top tax rates and pumping money into the MIC. So, yes, what you said. Didn’t Jesus admonish us to beat our plowshares into swords, and treat the richest among us like gods?
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#11 LFC

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 11:40 AM

This is what you get when a majority of American voters simply refuse to pay the bills, telling themselves childish stories of massive waste and trillions going to "those people" as well as foreign countries.

Quote

The era of trillion-dollar budget deficits is about to make a comeback — and a brewing budget deal could mean their return comes just next year.

Talks on a budget-busting spending pact that would give whopping increases to both the Pentagon and domestic programs have been inching closer to an agreement, aides and lawmakers said.

GOP defense hawks are prevailing over the party’s depleted ranks of deficit hawks while Democrats leverage their influence to increase spending for domestic priorities such as combating opioid misuse.

Details are closely held and subject to change. But at issue is a two-year deal to increase crunching caps on spending set by a failed 2011 budget deal. Republicans have pushed for defense increases in the neighborhood of $80 billion a year and have offered Democrats nearly as much — $60 billion or so per year — for nondefense programs.

Add in $80 billion to $90 billion worth of hurricane aid for Texas, Florida and Puerto Rico, health care funding and money for President Donald Trump’s border security plan, and the final tally could total close to $400 billion. The potential cost, over the 2018-19 budget years, would rival the deficit impact of last year’s tax measure over that period.

“Republicans for years have made all of these bold promises to rein in spending,” said Brian Riedl, a budget analyst at the conservative Manhattan Institute. “And they’re doing the opposite.”

The negotiations are bipartisan since it takes votes from Democrats to lift the budget caps and advance a follow-up omnibus spending bill, whose overall cost is likely to exceed $1.2 trillion. That means domestic programs get their due, despite the opposition of conservatives.

“Right now, everything I’m hearing grows the size of government at 13 percent,” said Rep. Mark Meadows, R-N.C., citing back-and-forth budget offers. “And that’s a nonstarter for conservatives.”

Still, Republican deficit hawks stepped aside during last year’s tax debate, and it’s not looking like they’ll mount a stand now. Instead, GOP defense hawks worried about lagging readiness, training and weapons procurement are carrying the day, even if it means placating Democrats with spending elsewhere.

“This budget dysfunction has a human cost, and our military is bearing the brunt of it,” said Mac Thornberry, chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, citing a spate of casualties from training accidents last year.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

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#12 LFC

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 12:11 PM

Trump proves himself to be a real Republican. His proposed budget skyrockets debt while cutting the social safety net. If Republicans thought they could get away with it, how far would this really be from what they'd pass? I'd say "not very."

Quote

President Donald Trump unveiled a $4.4 trillion budget plan Monday that envisions steep cuts to America’s social safety net but mounting spending on the military, formally retreating from last year’s promises to balance the federal budget.

The president’s spending outline for the first time acknowledges that the Republican tax overhaul passed last year would add billions to the deficit and not “pay for itself” as Trump and his Republican allies asserted. If enacted as proposed, though no presidential budget ever is, the plan would establish an era of $1 trillion-plus yearly deficits.


The open embrace of red ink is a remarkable public reversal for Trump and his party, which spent years objecting to President Barack Obama’s increased spending during the depths of the Great Recession. Rhetoric aside, however, Trump’s pattern is in line with past Republican presidents who have overseen spikes in deficits as they simultaneously increased military spending and cut taxes.

“We’re going to have the strongest military we’ve ever had, by far,” Trump said in an Oval Office appearance Monday. “In this budget we took care of the military like it’s never been taken care of before.”

Trump’s budget revived his calls for big cuts to domestic programs that benefit the poor and middle class, such as food stamps, housing subsidies and student loans. Retirement benefits would remain mostly untouched by Trump’s plan, as he has pledged, though Medicare providers would absorb about $500 billion in cuts — a nearly 6 percent reduction. Some beneficiaries in Social Security’s disability program would have to re-enter the workforce under proposed changes to eligibility rules.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#13 AnBr

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:19 PM

Quote

Trump’s budget revived his calls for big cuts to domestic programs that benefit the poor and middle class, such as food stamps, housing subsidies and student loans.

On cue: Trump wants to replace food stamps with a "food box" delivery program.
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#14 LFC

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:33 PM

View PostAnBr, on 13 February 2018 - 09:19 PM, said:


Covered on this thread.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#15 gmat

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 01:52 PM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 04 February 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

Brad DeLong and Larry Summers published a paper back, oh, six years ago which showed that under a given set of conditions (growth vs. long term interest on the debt, rate of return on infrastructure, etc.) there was a sustainable deficit that could go on forever without causing undesirable inflation.

Socialism!!!!!

Of course, now that Trump has (re)discovered the secret formula that Bush43 found for keeping deficits from mattering ...

Makes sense. All these scary stories about how are poor grandchildren will be stuck paying back all this money we’re borrowing is just bullshit. It doesn’t ever need to get paid back. All that money that was borrowed fifty years ago for the Vietnam War.? We’re not paying that back. We just roll it over, and pay some interest.

#16 baw1064

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 02:00 PM

I'd argue, though, that the Republicans' silly-ass tax changes, and planned spending on stuff other than infrastructure (what's the expected rate of return on a wall on the Mexican border?) is going to cause debt/GDP ratios to increase by a lot. At some point that does become unsustainable.
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#17 gmat

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 02:11 PM

View Postbaw1064, on 14 February 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

I'd argue, though, that the Republicans' silly-ass tax changes, and planned spending on stuff other than infrastructure (what's the expected rate of return on a wall on the Mexican border?) is going to cause debt/GDP ratios to increase by a lot. At some point that does become unsustainable.

I don’t know what point that is.

But if and when we get there the Fed can buy a few trillion of Treasuries on the secondary market (in the old days the Fed could buy bonds directfrom the Treasury, but oh well), and as you know whatever interest the Treasury pays the Fed on those bonds, the Fed gives back to the Treasury the same year.

#18 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:10 PM

View Postgmat, on 14 February 2018 - 01:52 PM, said:



Makes sense. All these scary stories about how are poor grandchildren will be stuck paying back all this money we’re borrowing is just bullshit. It doesn’t ever need to get paid back. All that money that was borrowed fifty years ago for the Vietnam War.? We’re not paying that back. We just roll it over, and pay some interest.

Good news! With GOP intransigence on climate change, “paying for the deficit” may be pretty low on grand kid’s priority list.

(Which sucks, since I have grand kids),

Trump delenda est.
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#19 pnwguy

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:25 PM

View PostProgressive whisperer, on 14 February 2018 - 03:10 PM, said:

Good news! With GOP intransigence on climate change, “paying for the deficit” may be pretty low on grand kid’s priority list.

(Which sucks, since I have grand kids),
You sound so positive! Like Professor Farnsworth:

https://www.youtube....h?v=YRCzEqkCoiM
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#20 gmat

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:28 PM

View PostProgressive whisperer, on 14 February 2018 - 03:10 PM, said:



Good news! With GOP intransigence on climate change, “paying for the deficit” may be pretty low on grand kid’s priority list.

(Which sucks, since I have grand kids),

I knew there was a pony in there somewhere!





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