Jump to content


The Republican Civil War Is Here - Bannon vs. The Establishment


29 replies to this topic

#1 LFC

    Fiscal Conservative

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 28139 posts
  • LocationPennsylvania

Posted 15 December 2017 - 04:00 PM

The Establishment is apparently striking back after his backing of Roy Moore. Let's sit back and hope for mutual annihilation. And by all means bring the popcorn.

Quote

fter Roy Moore’s embarrassing defeat in Alabama, Breitbart executive and erstwhile Trump aide Steve Bannon is entrenching himself in his war against the GOP establishment — and they’re responding in kind.

As the New York Times reports, Bannon’s anger at the more traditional wing of the party simmered just below the surface in a meeting of conservatives at D.C.’s Trump International Hotel following Democrat Doug Jones’ victory over his candidate.

“If we want to win, we need to stop playing footsie with the establishment,” he said, according to three Times sources who attended the meeting. “They’re just going to string you along, pat you on your head, and send you on your way.”

He went on to say that he was “not going to name names,” referencing the Republicans who left Moore — and Bannon — out to dry after woman after woman came forward to allege they had inappropriate relationships with the former Alabama Supreme court chief justice when they were teens and he was in his thirties.

To avoid the factious “spasms” that choked GOP during the reign of the Tea Party, the Times report continued, establishment Republicans “intend to kneecap him before he has the chance to recover.”

Scott W. Reed, the chief political strategist for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce (a backbone of the GOP establishment) told the Times that in order to cut Bannon off at the knee, the party must first “dry up his money.” He explained that Republicans are already calling donors around the nation to urge them not to donate to Bannon or his candidates.

“Two is to try and drive a wedge between him and Trump to the point where Trump is questioning him and his judgment,” Reed continued. “You win, you win. You lose, you’re a loser. And that’s what Bannon has to wear around his neck now. A big L.”

Reed and the GOP establishment have their work cut out for him — in an interview with the Times shortly after Moore’s loss, Bannon expressed his intention to play a long game.

“Revolutions and civil wars take a long time,” Bannon said. “I never said Alabama was going to solve anything.”

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#2 Progressive whisperer

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10233 posts

Posted 15 December 2017 - 06:21 PM

Here’s to mass casualties among the combatants!


Trump delenda est.
GOP delenda est.
Resist!

#3 D. C. Sessions

    I don't have to pretend to be an adult any more

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9556 posts
  • LocationCentral New Mexico

Posted 17 December 2017 - 11:10 AM

Voltaire:

Quote

I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it.

The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#4 golden_valley

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5654 posts
  • LocationNorthern California

Posted 22 December 2017 - 12:21 PM

This more properly belongs here:

Here's a long form article about Bannon...the self styled revolutionary. Quite a confident guy, he is.

#5 MSheridan

    Human, for lack of options

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2607 posts
  • LocationSacramento, CA

Posted 22 December 2017 - 01:11 PM

On the Front Lines of the GOP's Civil War

A rather fun read, in part because it's got so much Frum in it. Even a mention of FrumForum. I felt the piece cut him and the rest of the Never-Trumper crew mentioned too much slack for intellectual consistency, but I suppose it isn't altogether surprising. It's only Esquire, when all is said and done.

#6 golden_valley

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5654 posts
  • LocationNorthern California

Posted 22 December 2017 - 02:03 PM

The Empire Strikes Back....

Quote

“Well let me just say this: The political genius on display of throwing away a seat in the reddest state in America is hard to ignore,” McConnell said in response to a question about whether he blamed Bannon for Democrat Doug Jones’s win in the special election for Senate in Alabama earlier this month.


#7 D. C. Sessions

    I don't have to pretend to be an adult any more

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9556 posts
  • LocationCentral New Mexico

Posted 22 December 2017 - 02:14 PM

View PostMSheridan, on 22 December 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

A rather fun read, in part because it's got so much Frum in it. Even a mention of FrumForum. I felt the piece cut him and the rest of the Never-Trumper crew mentioned too much slack for intellectual consistency, but I suppose it isn't altogether surprising. It's only Esquire, when all is said and done.

I rather like the comparison to Russian exiles, like Cuban exiles, dreaming of their return and restoration.

Because that's what they're doing. I profoundly doubt that there's a snowball's chance of pulling it off, though, because of one simple thing: there aren't enough of them. The Rumpublicans, who are basically the old plutocratic wing of the Party, have one essential problem that makes the rest moot: the neoconfederate/neonazi wing, now that it has the bit in its teeth, can dominate every primary. The Rumpublicans kept power by holding control of the Party structure while whipping up the base with religious and racist fearmongering. Trump cut the dogwhistles and started pouring the high-test moonshine. The old apparatchiks saw what happened to Cantor and followed suit; it was that or join Cantor. If they try to turn their backs on that end now, they're gone. I'm looking at what is happening in the primary races shaping up in a State where 47% of the population is Latino, a fair chunk Navajo and other Native tribes, etc. and the R-candidates are all foaming at the mouth, however suicidal that may be come November.

Frum and company, like all exile communities, can get together for good food, good drinks, and sincere planning for the Glorious Restoration. But they'll die in exile.

ETA: Nice Frum quote to conclude: “The problem with the devil’s bargain is that the devil never delivers,” Frum says. “That’s the point of the story.”
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#8 indy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9101 posts

Posted 22 December 2017 - 02:59 PM

Even if some miraculous restoration happened, Frum and friends won't be invited to participate. Maybe validation, but that's about it.

#9 golden_valley

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5654 posts
  • LocationNorthern California

Posted 22 December 2017 - 03:21 PM

Was there ever a time when Frum and his compatriots could have prevented the train wreck that is now the Republican Party? Reagan years, Bush the Elder years...earlier or later than those years? It was already too late when Palin was made VP nominee.

#10 indy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9101 posts

Posted 22 December 2017 - 03:31 PM

I think Frum and friends had some policy input at some point, but that's about it. To the extent they ever shaped public opinion, that was mostly just a figment of their imagination.

#11 AnBr

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 13048 posts

Posted 22 December 2017 - 09:58 PM

The chicanery they used to gain electoral majority doomed the party to a takeover by the Morlocks. Gerrymandering didn't just create Republican safe districts, but Freedumb Caucus safe districts. Citizens United destroyed the power if the purse strings of the RNC. Pandering to the Religious Reich, but never delivering caused the religious nutjobs to move to the extremist knuckle dragger candidates. The Repugs were doomed when they first resorted to their trickery.
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#12 D. C. Sessions

    I don't have to pretend to be an adult any more

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9556 posts
  • LocationCentral New Mexico

Posted 22 December 2017 - 10:15 PM

View Postgolden_valley, on 22 December 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

Was there ever a time when Frum and his compatriots could have prevented the train wreck that is now the Republican Party? Reagan years, Bush the Elder years...earlier or later than those years? It was already too late when Palin was made VP nominee.

Nixon. If he'd refused to take Falwell's offer of the Old ConfedeRACY, the 'Eisenhower Republicans' might have become a fairly sane conservative party. The USA's structural limitation to two parties, though, combined with the festering remains of slavery will always present a temptation to repeat Nixon's sin.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#13 pnwguy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1703 posts
  • LocationPortlandia

Posted 23 December 2017 - 01:42 PM

View Postgolden_valley, on 22 December 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

Was there ever a time when Frum and his compatriots could have prevented the train wreck that is now the Republican Party? Reagan years, Bush the Elder years...earlier or later than those years? It was already too late when Palin was made VP nominee.
I think Palin was a substantial turning point of no return. The Southern Strategy was the hard turn off the highway of respect and desire to serve the nation instead of the party's interests. But Palin brought the party into the Kardashian age.

The one thing I have liked about McCain at times is an ability to admit mistakes and move forward. He has owned up about other mistakes, like the South Carolina flag in the 2000 election. But he's never owned up to Palin. I can see that he doesn't want to be hurtful while she is alive and say she was incompetent to hold office. But he broke open one of the seven seals to the GOP Apocalypse that is threatening us as a nation.
"All glory to the HypnoTrump, or else..."

"It all makes sense when you remind yourself that the GOP is no longer a political party but turned into an organized crime family"

"I hope to live long enough that the name Trump is reviled as much as the name Hitler or Stalin"

#14 LFC

    Fiscal Conservative

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 28139 posts
  • LocationPennsylvania

Posted 26 December 2017 - 01:49 PM

View PostMSheridan, on 22 December 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

On the Front Lines of the GOP's Civil War A rather fun read, in part because it's got so much Frum in it. Even a mention of FrumForum. I felt the piece cut him and the rest of the Never-Trumper crew mentioned too much slack for intellectual consistency, but I suppose it isn't altogether surprising. It's only Esquire, when all is said and done.

I still see little self realization of their own roles in aiding, abetting, and anti-intellectualism. I'll never forget that Frum told us to vote Romney because he didn't really mean what he was saying, and that was 4 years after the Sin of Sarah. He's done more than his fair share to contribute to GOP tribalism.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#15 LFC

    Fiscal Conservative

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 28139 posts
  • LocationPennsylvania

Posted 28 November 2018 - 05:53 PM

Not Steve Bannon but Rep. Mike Johnson (R-LA). He appears to be quietly coupled to the Freedumb Caucus but is playing the role of a more mainstream Republican and that's allowed him to move up in the ranks. It sounds like it's a quiet attempt at a wingnut coup.

Quote

The spy’s mission was simple: Gain their trust, become one of them, and eventually take them over.

In Rep. Mike Johnson (R-LA), the House Freedom Caucus (HFC) found a perfect mole. To members of the Republican Study Committee (RSC), the freshman lawmaker seemed like one of them—conservative, clean-cut, and hungry for power and influence.

But under the conservative veneer, he was, well, a conservative—but more than that, he’s the key player in a larger scheme by the rival group to co-opt its influence over House GOP leaders and consolidate the conservative factions within the party, a dozen Republican lawmakers and aides told The Daily Beast.

So, for two years he was groomed and positioned, never denouncing but never formally affiliating with the Freedom Caucus and all the while getting closer and closer to his goal of total control over conservative Republicans in the House.

And it worked.

On Nov. 16, Johnson was elected as the chairman of the RSC, the House’s largest bloc of conservatives, while successfully shielding the full extent of his involvement in the smaller, ultra-conservative HFC, which is estimated to include just 40 members.

Rep. Mark Meadows (R-NC), the chairman of the Freedom Caucus, declined to comment on the record, but several Republican sources told The Daily Beast that Johnson is, for all intents and purposes, a member of the HFC because he regularly attends meetings and is included in the internal vote-counting operations. Johnson told The Daily Beast that he does not pay dues to the group, but the financial relationship between the Louisiana Republican and the Freedom Caucus runs deep.

The House Freedom Fund, the political action committee that helps HFC members get re-elected, contributed five figures to Johnson’s 2016 and 2018 efforts, according to Federal Election Commission filings. Johnson’s campaign paid the PAC $6,142 to fundraise on his behalf in 2017 and 2018, according to FEC records.

He acknowledged to Roll Call earlier this month that he is “in close alignment” with the Freedom Caucus.

Despite his denials of formal membership, Johnson—a short, thin, soft-spoken yet defiant 46-year-old southerner who wears frame-less eyeglasses—defended his involvement with the HFC, arguing that it was important to unify the GOP conference as it heads into the minority.

“My driving force is to get the Republicans to work together, to bring the family together so to speak. I think we’re going to have a great opportunity to do that in the next Congress,” Johnson told The Daily Beast.

Johnson’s victory was a major coup for the HFC, which has for at least three years tried to commandeer the RSC as part of its quest for heightened influence within the House GOP conference and the party’s leadership. Tensions between the RSC and HFC have often spilled into the public, and several Freedom Caucus members have since left the RSC.

“If Mike Johnson is a secret member, the House Freedom Caucus pulled one of the greatest political heists in modern history and nobody even noticed,” a Republican aide, granted anonymity to give a candid assessment, told The Daily Beast. “Instead of trying to take over their conservative rival in the chamber head-on and falling like they have in the past, they quietly took it over creating another institution in the House Freedom Caucus network. Truly, a spectacular move that nobody saw coming.”

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#16 LFC

    Fiscal Conservative

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 28139 posts
  • LocationPennsylvania

Posted 19 December 2018 - 11:09 AM

In Kansas 3 formerly Republican state legislators have chosen to start the new legislative session as Democrats. They've had enough.

Quote

When the Kansas state government reconvenes in January, three of its formerly Republican members will report as freshly minted Democrats.

The two state senators and one state representative, all women, cited varying sources of their discontent within the GOP.

State Sen. Barbara Bollier started the trend last week, as first reported by the Kansas City Star.

Bollier attributed her change of heart to her disgust with President Donald Trump and the state GOP’s decision that it would “oppose all efforts to validate transgender identity.”

“I cannot be complicit in supporting that,” Bollier told the Star, referring to the Trump presidency. “I can’t call it leadership. I don’t even know what to call him. He is our President, but he is not representing my value system remotely.”

She added that the party is “hell bent” on removing moderates, the label she gives herself.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#17 pnwguy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1703 posts
  • LocationPortlandia

Posted 20 December 2018 - 01:47 PM

Get more butter for the popcorn

Looks like the Tangerine Terror wants to go green like the Grinch. Will the GOP legislators in NoClueVille still sing, when their Christmas is stolen?
"All glory to the HypnoTrump, or else..."

"It all makes sense when you remind yourself that the GOP is no longer a political party but turned into an organized crime family"

"I hope to live long enough that the name Trump is reviled as much as the name Hitler or Stalin"

#18 Traveler

    Rambling Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 13075 posts
  • LocationPhilly Area

Posted 20 December 2018 - 02:03 PM

Can this non signing be overridden like a veto? That would be rich if Ryan had to get Dem votes to override.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#19 pnwguy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1703 posts
  • LocationPortlandia

Posted 20 December 2018 - 03:03 PM

View PostTraveler, on 20 December 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

Can this non signing be overridden like a veto? That would be rich if Ryan had to get Dem votes to override.
I think the "pocket veto" would be the principle here. Congress would be out of session by the time he either has to veto it or allow it to pass without his signature. It would be up to the next Congress to bring up a new spending bill.
"All glory to the HypnoTrump, or else..."

"It all makes sense when you remind yourself that the GOP is no longer a political party but turned into an organized crime family"

"I hope to live long enough that the name Trump is reviled as much as the name Hitler or Stalin"

#20 D. C. Sessions

    I don't have to pretend to be an adult any more

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9556 posts
  • LocationCentral New Mexico

Posted 20 December 2018 - 03:17 PM

Ran across this in the back thread from new content:

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 22 December 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

Trump cut the dogwhistles and started pouring the high-test moonshine. The old apparatchiks saw what happened to Cantor and followed suit; it was that or join Cantor. If they try to turn their backs on that end now, they're gone. I'm looking at what is happening in the primary races shaping up in a State where 47% of the population is Latino, a fair chunk Navajo and other Native tribes, etc. and the R-candidates are all foaming at the mouth, however suicidal that may be come November.

Not a bad prediction, actually. The only Republicans I've seen elected this time around are for minor local offices (County assessor, for instance) in a county where family counts for more than Party, plus one State House seat that was unopposed. Otherwise? Democratic governor, two Democratic Senators, three Democratic US Representatives.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users