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Trump on Trade ... Stupidity and Childish Continue


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#441 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 02:31 PM

View PostLFC, on 09 August 2019 - 01:49 PM, said:

I find this issue particularly frustrating because I actually agree with Trump on some of the broad brush stuff. The problem is that he's a foul-mouthed, ignorant, incompetent buffoon who wouldn't know how to bring a trade negotiation to a successful conclusion if he doughy, orange painted life depended on it.

He knows how to make great deals! You threaten the other party or parties, offer them barely break-even terms, then renege on those. When called on even that, you walk away leaving your creditors holding the bag.

He is the BEST at deals! Jina doesn't understand how to play the game.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#442 pnwguy

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 07:30 PM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 09 August 2019 - 02:31 PM, said:



He knows how to make great deals! You threaten the other party or parties, offer them barely break-even terms, then renege on those. When called on even that, you walk away leaving your creditors holding the bag.

He is the BEST at deals! Jina doesn't understand how to play the game.
It’s worked out for him before. Bankrupt the company (the US in this case) and walk away. Move on to something else and let everyone else holding the bag. He can start fresh in Pyongyang or Moscow.
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#443 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 01:44 AM

View Postpnwguy, on 09 August 2019 - 07:30 PM, said:

It’s worked out for him before. Bankrupt the company (the US in this case) and walk away. Move on to something else and let everyone else holding the bag. He can start fresh in Pyongyang or Moscow.

PYONG-YANG! That;s what the British economy will go after Hallowe'en.
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#444 LFC

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 02:26 PM

Trump tips his hand that he actually does understand that China doesn't pay for the tariffs. Not that being caught in a lie has ever slowed him down in the past. For his supporters it's all part of his "charm."

Quote

MSNBC hosts Ali Velshi and Stephanie Ruhle revealed Tuesday that President Donald Trump just confessed to Americans he was lying about tariffs on China.

At the end of their show, the hosts showed the Stock Market increase after a few days of the market tumbling.

The president threatened to usher in his tariffs on China Sept. 1, immediately causing the markets to fall in response. Trump has argued that the markets and Americans shouldn’t be concerned because China is paying for the increase in tariffs.

“We’re doing this for the Christmas season,” Trump told reporters on an airport tarmac. “Just in case some of the tariffs would have an impact on U.S. customers.”

“So far they’ve had virtually none,” he added. “But just in case they might have an impact on people, what we’ve done is we’ve delayed it, so that they won’t be relevant to the Christmas shopping season.”

In just a few minutes, Trump revealed his “reassurance” about the economy was all a lie.

“This is why this matters,” Ruhle began. “The president has said all along: China — China is paying the tariffs. If that were true –”

“Then what does it matter?” Velshi cut in.

“Why on Earth would the president be delaying these tariffs because of the Christmas shopping season?” Ruhle agreed.

“If China is paying for it why does it matter?” Velshi echoed.

“The president is proving a point that it’s the U.S. importers that pay the tariffs,” Ruhle said.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#445 LFC

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Posted 13 August 2019 - 02:32 PM

Trump proves himself an idiot on the subject of trade with Japan as well. (Yes, I realize that sentence would stand on its own with just the first 5 words.)

Quote

President Donald Trump on Tuesday made a bizarre and factually inaccurate statement about the trade relationship between America and Japan that left CNN fact checker Daniel Dale utterly baffled.

During a speech supposedly about energy production in Pennsylvania, Trump once again suggested that Japan was ripping off the United States because it did not import enough American products.

“I told [Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo] Abe, great guy, I said, ‘Listen, we have a massive deficit with Japan,'” he said. “They send us thousands and thousands — millions! — of cars, we send them wheat. Wheat! That’s not a good deal. And they don’t even want our wheat, they do it to make us feel that we’re okay, you know, they do it to make us feel good.”

The U.S. trade deficit with Japan was $56.8 billion in 2018, as the United States exported $120.4 billion worth of goods and services to Japan, while importing $177.1 billion.

Contrary to the president’s claims, however, the Office of the United States Trade Representative says that top exports to Japan in 2018 included mineral fuels ($8.8 billion), machinery ($8.2 billion), optical and medical instruments ($7.5 billion), aircraft ($6.5 billion), and electrical machinery ($4.8 billion).

Additionally, wheat was not even the top agricultural export to Japan, as the United States exported significantly more in corn, beef, pork, and soybeans.

Trump’s statement about trade with Japan was so strange that CNN fact checker Dale could only write “???” after transcribing it.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#446 LFC

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 02:32 PM

China hits back again causing the stock market to drop. Trump has no idea what to do.

Quote

China on Friday announced that it was levying tariffs on $75 billion worth of American goods in the latest retaliation against President Donald Trump’s trade war.

In addition to slapping tariffs on an additional $75 billion worth of goods, China also said it would resume enforcing duties against American automobiles.

As Bloomberg reports, the announcement of new tariffs ahead of the opening bell on Friday sent stock market futures plunging downward.

Although futures markets had initially shown that the Dow-Jones Industrial Average, the S&P 500, and NASDAQ would all open the day on an upward trajectory, those gains were instantly wiped out as soon as China announced its retaliatory tariffs, as seen in the graph below.

The latest salvo in the trade war comes as warning signs continue to mount that the economy is slowing down and could fall into a recession in the near future. The U.S. Treasury bonds yield curve inverted again on Thursday, and new data from IHS Markit showed that the American manufacturing sector actually contracted in August, marking the first time the sector has shrunk since 2009 in the midst of the Great Recession.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#447 LFC

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 02:56 PM

Peter Navarro, Trump adviser and all-around idiot, stepped onto Fox Business just as China announced its retaliation and the markets started dropping. Schadenfreude. Lovely, delicious schadenfreude.

Quote

President Donald Trump’s chief economic adviser got a rude welcome on the Fox Business Network on Friday morning as host Maria Bartiromo dropped a bomb on him and informed him that China had just smacked the U.S. with an unexpected round of tariffs.

Assistant to the President, and Director of Trade and Manufacturing Policy Peter Navarro — called by some the president’s economic Rasputin — seemed genuinely stunned by the new $75 billion tariffs in retaliation for the president’s trade war.

“We have breaking news, China is announcing new tariff rates to apply and as a result, this market has completely reversed course,” Bartiromo stated while displaying a ticker showing the stock market plunging.

“Here is the news,” she continued. “Beijing will raise the import tariff rate on some goods. It will apply to that $ 75 billion worth of goods and in a nanosecond this market reversed course — Dow industrials down 91 points. Joining me right now on breaking news, is Office of Trade and Manufacturing Policy Director, Peter Navarro. It’s good to see you, timing is everything, isn’t it my friend?”

“You can’t make this up,” Navarro said while shaking his head and then adding, “This is not planned, by the way.”

“No, but Beijing is out,” she countered. “And it is saying what it is it is going to do. going to do: $75 billion. You knew a retaliatory move was coming, is it worse than you expected?”

Unprepared to respond, Navarro attempted, “Look, we know China is going to do what it is going to do. Here is the thing that is really interesting, in the two and a half years that the president has been in office, he has galvanized the American people and Capitol Hill behind his China policy. And we know why, China steals our stuff. They flood our communities with fentanyl and everything in between. I think the risk here for China when it does things like this is simply to galvanize support even more for the president. So look we are going to have negotiations.”.”

Noting his lack of specifics, and Navarro dismissing the stock market downturn, Bartiromo pressed, “No, but it is Peter. You saw what was just happening when you first sat down in that seat this market was up 80 points, right now we are down 127, so you know what comes out of the White House, what comes out of Beijing is impacting markets directly.”

After breaking down the specifics of the new tariffs, the Fox Business host once again pressed Navarro, who didn’t want to talk about China.

“Negotiations continue hidden closed doors going to resume talks in September,” he parried before changing the topic. “In terms of the world economy, in terms of the U.S. economy, I think what really matters here is what European Central Bank is about to do, which is lower interest rates. I think that is good for America, because a stronger Europe is going to mean more export demand for American exports.”

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#448 JackD

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 09:37 AM

The New York Times this morning reports that Trump is citing the 1977 statute regarding presidential emergency powers to justify ordering companies out of China. That's the same statute he used to take military appropriations and used them for his Mexican wall. The Supreme Court let him get away with that.
In this case he hasn't yet gone through the formalities of declaring an emergency but he could. Based on recent rulings (Mexican wall and travel ban), it's questionable whether the Court would stop him.
As the economy goes further and further into the shitter, why wouldn't he blame it all on China and throw everything further into chaos?

#449 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 02:20 PM

View PostJackD, on 24 August 2019 - 09:37 AM, said:

The New York Times this morning reports that Trump is citing the 1977 statute regarding presidential emergency powers to justify ordering companies out of China. That's the same statute he used to take military appropriations and used them for his Mexican wall. The Supreme Court let him get away with that.
In this case he hasn't yet gone through the formalities of declaring an emergency but he could. Based on recent rulings (Mexican wall and travel ban), it's questionable whether the Court would stop him.

It's one thing to order elements of the Federal Government around. Were I the CEO of any of hundreds of major firms, I'd be asking "Or else what?"

Meanwhile, I keep waiting for the widespread "Republicans are better at managing the economy" and "Republicans are good for business" beliefs to die their long-overdue deaths. No sign yet, though.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#450 JackD

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 03:39 PM

Unfortunately, he can probably come up with some major clubs to beat them with until morale improves. Taxes, for example.

#451 golden_valley

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 07:52 PM

View PostJackD, on 24 August 2019 - 09:37 AM, said:

The New York Times this morning reports that Trump is citing the 1977 statute regarding presidential emergency powers to justify ordering companies out of China. That's the same statute he used to take military appropriations and used them for his Mexican wall. The Supreme Court let him get away with that.
In this case he hasn't yet gone through the formalities of declaring an emergency but he could. Based on recent rulings (Mexican wall and travel ban), it's questionable whether the Court would stop him.
As the economy goes further and further into the shitter, why wouldn't he blame it all on China and throw everything further into chaos?

Well if all he had to do was to order companies out of China, why did Trump bother with tariffs at all? ;)

#452 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 08:04 PM

Because (cue Elton John tune) he's the Tariff Man!
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#453 JackD

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Posted 24 August 2019 - 09:19 PM

I didn't say he was logical; I just said the Court might let him do what he wants whether it makes sense or not. Consider the Muslim travel ban and the military housing money used for the wall on our southern border.

#454 indy

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 11:49 AM

I think Trump demonstrates that the IEEPA was probably a bad idea. Unfortunately, we are stuck with it now.

#455 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 01:10 PM

View Postindy, on 25 August 2019 - 11:49 AM, said:

I think Trump demonstrates that the IEEPA was probably a bad idea. Unfortunately, we are stuck with it now.

I think a lot of Congressional delegations are going to get sunset clauses. Ideally, delegations like this should only last for the duration of the Congress that approves them.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#456 LFC

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 10:00 AM

Little Lindsey Lapdog, who is feeling zero pain from the trade war, tells people they need to accept their pain.

Quote

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) on Sunday shrugged off the current and predicted damage resulting from President Donald Trump’s escalating trade war with China.

“The Democrats for years have been claiming that China should be stood up to,” Graham told “Face the Nation” host Margaret Brennan. “Now Trump is, and we’ve just got to to accept the pain that comes with standing up to China.”

“How do you get China to change without creating something pain on them and us? I don’t know,” he added.

American farmers have already been burned by China’s retaliatory tariffs in the trade war, and Trump’s latest round of tariffs on all remaining Chinese imports are predicted to hike up prices for consumers once the tariffs take effect.

Watch Graham below:

Quote

Graham defends increased prices for consumers resulting from Trump's trade war: "We've just got to to accept the pain that comes with standing up to China." pic.twitter.com/iTKPnSJAyp

— TPM Livewire (@TPMLiveWire) August 25, 2019

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#457 Traveler

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 10:53 AM

I don't know if you guys noticed, but things sure turned around in a hurry. First, China shot back with increased tariffs on our Thursday.

Trump then lashed out with increased tariffs on our Friday:

Quote

China on Saturday said it would continue fighting the trade war with the US “until the end” after the two sides slapped further tariffs on each other’s goods.

The commerce ministry issued a statement calling on Washington not to “misjudge the situation and underestimate the determination of Chinese people” after US President Donald Trump announced new tariffs on Chinese imports. “The US should immediately stop its wrong action, or it will have to bear all consequences,” the statement said.
China lashed back with its typical empty words on our Saturday:

Quote

Chinese state media has called US President Donald Trump’s decision to escalate the tariff war a “strategic mistake” and vowed not to give in to America’s “unreasonable demands”.

In an editorial on Sunday, Communist Party mouthpiece the People’s Daily warned that the latest move would make it impossible for Washington to “win” the trade war.
And then completely backed down on our Sunday:

Quote

China “resolutely opposes the escalation of the trade war” with the United States and instead welcomes “calm negotiations”, according to Vice-Premier Liu He, after last week’s moves by both Beijing and Washington further increased the trade tensions between the world’s two largest economies.

And then trump made nice on our Monday:

Quote

US President Donald Trump has once again sought to appear cooperative with China, showering praise on his Chinese counterpart in yet another dramatic twist in a week of threats to escalate the trade war.

Calling Chinese President Xi Jinping a “great leader” just days after labelling him a US enemy, Trump confirmed on Monday that Chinese officials contacted Washington on the weekend for further talks, despite his earlier threat to order all American businesses to leave China by invoking an emergency law mainly used against rogue states.

Skilled play by trump, given the ineptitude shown by China. Never try to bluff a bluffer. China has completely lost the initiative now. They cannot even respond to tariff hikes anymore. I am not so certain that a full blown trade war with China is going to cause a recession here as many might think. (good articles over on BB). However, factories are moving out of China, and desperation is setting in. (I know, look at the source, but seems legit to me).
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#458 J-CA

    Probably in one of my drunken stupors..

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 11:21 AM

View PostTraveler, on 26 August 2019 - 10:53 AM, said:

... However, factories are moving out of China, and desperation is setting in. (I know, look at the source, but seems legit to me).
Here is the "real" source for that article: https://ca.reuters.c...KCN1VA2E7-OCATP
I am the burrito until someone hands me to a philosopher.

#459 J-CA

    Probably in one of my drunken stupors..

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 11:31 AM

View PostJ-CA, on 26 August 2019 - 11:21 AM, said:

Here is the "real" source for that article: https://ca.reuters.c...KCN1VA2E7-OCATP
The story sort of buries the lede a bit, if you look at this:

Quote

Rising labor costs and tighter regulations in China had already led him to consider moving the business elsewhere in Asia. But the trade war forced his hand.
...
His suppliers in Shenzhen, Dongguan and Guangzhou were certain the trade conflict would blow over and were reluctant to negotiate deals that would send components and raw materials abroad for assembly.
On the one hand, yes this is a story about tariffs moving work out of China and into SE Asia, but it is also just an acceleration of an existing trend. China is shedding lower-skilled assembly jobs to other countries, those countries are working their way up from the "textile factory" tier of the international trade hierarchy into the low-end of the technology tier.
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#460 LFC

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 12:20 PM

This is all such a (literally) world-class, monumental cluster-f*** that it's tough to keep up. It certainly doesn't help that some months ago people familiar with the talks said a big part of the problem is that nobody on either side knows exactly what Trump wants other than "a win."
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer





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