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Trump on Trade ... Stupidity and Childish Continue


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#361 LFC

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 03:04 PM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 27 September 2018 - 02:59 PM, said:

Krugman has more on that. He's not pretending to be sure, but do recall that he has a Nobel for international trade.

The Nobel gives him some credence. The fact that he's been right an awful lot of the time (compared to, say, Trump economic adviser and former cokehead Larry Kudlow) gives him a lot more.

EDIT: Found the link to the NY Times piece. Very interesting.

EDIT 2: Found an older Krugman story from July called How to Lose a Trade War. It lays out that Trump's stupid trade war is even dumber than it appears on the surface. He literally has no idea what he's doing or what he's even trying to accomplish (cue Crazy Charlie Sheen smilingly saying "WINNING!"). China and Canada, on the other hand, quite clearly do.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#362 LFC

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 03:24 PM

Another excellent Krugman piece on Trump's tariffs. These passages put it sooooo into context.

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In fact, the tariffs are arguably the Trumpiest thing Trump has done so far.

After all, trade (like racism) is an issue on which Trump has been utterly consistent over the years. He has spent decades railing at other countries that, he claims, hurt America by taking advantage of our relatively open markets. And if his views are based on zero understanding of the issues or even of basic facts, well, Trumpism is all about belligerent ignorance, across the board.

But wait, there’s more. There’s a reason we have international trade agreements, and it’s not to protect us from unfair practices by other countries. The real goal, instead, is to protect us from ourselves: to limit the special-interest politics and outright corruption that used to reign in trade policy.

Trumpocrats, however, don’t see corruption and rule by special interests as problems. You could say that the world trading system is, in large part, specifically designed to prevent people like Trump from having too much influence. Of course he wants to wreck it.


Quote

Under U.S. trade law, which is written to be consonant with our international agreements, the president can impose tariffs under certain narrowly defined conditions. But the steel and aluminum tariffs, justified with an obviously bogus appeal to national security, clearly don’t pass the test.

So Trump is in effect both violating U.S. law and throwing the world trading system under the bus. And if this escalates into a full-scale trade war, we’ll be back to the bad old days. Tariff policy will once again be driven by influence-peddling and bribery, never mind the national interest.

But that won’t bother Trump. After all, we now basically have an Environmental Protection Agency run on behalf of polluters, an Interior Department run by people who want to loot federal land, an Education Department run by the for-profit schools industry, and so on. Why should trade policy be different?

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#363 LFC

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Posted 01 October 2018 - 08:59 AM

A deal has been cut with Canada. I haven't read much on the details but if it's anything like the deal cut with Mexico it's basically a tiny bit of window dressing and a rebrand / rename of NAFTA so Trump can prance around and say "I WON! I WON!" Yeah, that was worth burning relationships with our two closest neighbors to the ground for.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#364 LFC

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 10:08 AM

I expect Trump to go head to head with the U.N. over this. With Trump in power it seems like we are now the world's biggest asshole. (We're #1! We're #1!)

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The United Nations’ highest court on Wednesday ordered the United States to lift sanctions on Iran that affect imports of humanitarian goods and products and services linked to civil aviation safety.

The ruling by the International Court of Justice is legally binding, but it remains to be seen if the administration of President Donald Trump will comply.

Trump moved to restore tough U.S. sanctions in May after withdrawing from Tehran’s nuclear accord with world powers. Iran challenged the sanctions in a case filed in July at the International Court of Justice.

In a preliminary ruling, the court said that Washington must “remove, by means of its choosing, any impediments arising from” the re-imposition of sanctions to the export to Iran of medicine and medical devices, food and agricultural commodities and spare parts and equipment necessary to ensure the safety of civil aviation.

By limiting the order to sanctions covering humanitarian goods and the civil aviation industry, the ruling did not go as far as Iran had requested.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#365 pnwguy

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 01:40 PM

View PostLFC, on 03 October 2018 - 10:08 AM, said:

With Trump in power it seems like we are now the world's biggest asshole. (We're #1! We're #1!)
I think the rest of the world is looking at us as #2, as in a heaping, steamy pile of #2...
"All glory to the HypnoTrump, or else..."

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#366 Bact PhD

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Posted 03 October 2018 - 05:06 PM

View Postpnwguy, on 03 October 2018 - 01:40 PM, said:

I think the rest of the world is looking at us as #2, as in a heaping, steamy pile of #2...

Like these?

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#367 LFC

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 11:26 AM

Congress seems to be trying to force the Trump administration to do something that's actually smart and strategic concerning China and intellectual property.

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As the Trump administration continues to ramp up tariffs as part of its effort to inflict economic levies on China, behind the scenes it is quietly taking steps to deal another blow to the country.

The Department of Treasury and Commerce are knee-deep in crafting new regulations that will implement restrictions against China meant to limit its ability to access U.S. technology, data, and infrastructure, current and former officials told The Daily Beast. The regulations will also propel a plan that gives the government the jurisdiction to review Chinese investment into American companies that deal with or manufacture that technology.

The restrictions were included in two pieces of legislation under the 2019 National Defense Authorization Act, a series of laws that outlines the budget and expenditures for the Department of Defense, which President Trump signed in August. The government has 18 months to fully implement the new legislation and the new regulations will move that process forward.

“This is going to be very contentious and no one really knows how it is all going to shake out,” said one senior official in the department of Commerce. “We will have to wait and see what these regulations say. The new legislation will mostly likely impact many more countries but it was really crafted in order to target China.”

“The government didn’t specifically say that this legislation was about China but it’s clear from their readouts that a lot of the new measures will be aimed at it,” said Martin Chorzempa, a research fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics based in Washington, D.C. “There’s no way to make everyone happy with this because American companies are worried about how it will impact them and the government views it as something it needs to do to protect national security. With these new regulations the administration is going to have to strike a very difficult balance.”

One of the primary motivations behind the legislation was the need to address concerns regarding the release of emerging technologies such as artificial intelligence, automated machines, and robotics to countries of concern, especially China, current and former officials told The Daily Beast. The U.S. government views these technologies and infrastructure as critical to the national security of the U.S, they said.

The new measures are part of a broader effort by the U.S. to reset its political and economic strategy with China. Over the past several months, the Trump administration has implemented an increasing amount of tariffs on Chinese goods, which experts say has lead to an all-out trade war.


This entire topic is clearly beyond his comprehension. He still thinks that other countries pay for his stupid tariffs. Let's hope that there are smarter people available to make this happen. I certainly have zero faith in his merry band of hand-picked morons.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#368 Traveler

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 01:21 PM

That should be copied to the china thread. Thanks
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#369 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 02:03 AM

View PostTraveler, on 08 October 2018 - 01:21 PM, said:

That should be copied to the china thread. Thanks

Why drag ceramics into all this?
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

Only Satan can rebuke sin. The righteous don't know enough.

God is not dead. He was merely voted out of office.

You can do anything with anybody if you just save them the trouble of thinking.

#370 LFC

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 01:53 PM

The IMF says Trump's trade war is going to slow global economic growth. The impact currently looks like it's not too huge but it may be long-lasting.

Quote

The global economy is expected to take a small hit for the rest of this year and next year — and it’s partly President Donald Trump’s fault.

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) released a major report on Tuesday that projected the world’s economy will grow by 3.7 percent, which is 0.2 points lower than they had estimated in April. That’s the same rate of growth as 2017, signaling a slight slowdown — and Trump’s trade policies are a major reason why.

“[T]he forecast for 2019 has been revised down due to recently announced trade measures, including the tariffs imposed on $200 billion of US imports from China,” reads the IMF’s “World Economic Outlook” report.

Trump recently placed tariffs on Chinese products to punish the country for years of unfair trading practices, including stealing American intellectual property for the benefit of its economy.

The gambit may have worked somewhat: The IMF noted that China’s economy will drop to 6.2 percent growth as opposed to the once-expected 6.6 percent. But China has responded with tariffs on its own on American products, making it even harder for US companies to sell in the Chinese market.

The measures clearly will have broader, lasting effects on the world.

“When you have the world’s two largest economies at odds, that’s a situation where everyone suffers,” Maurice Obstfeld, the IMF’s chief economist, told reporters on Tuesday. He added that global growth could further drop “close to a percentage [point]” if the trade war continues.

But Trump’s effect on the global economy extends beyond the China trade war.

Obstfeld also said that uncertainty surrounding two trade deals involving the US — the new US-Mexico-Canada Agreement which is intended to replace NAFTA, and a pending US-Europe trade deal — may lead to a slight economic downturn.

In effect, the president’s desire to improve trade deals for America’s benefit may be harming the world’s economy in the long run.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#371 AnBr

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 05:17 PM

View PostRich T Bikkies, on 09 October 2018 - 02:03 AM, said:

Why drag ceramics into all this?


Posted Image
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#372 LFC

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 01:19 PM

I imagine Trump is pretty popular in Brazil right now.

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The Bella Vita luxury condominium tower rises 20 stories over the boomtown of Luís Eduardo Magalhães in northeastern Brazil. Its private movie theater and helipad are symbols of how far this dusty farming community has come since it was founded just 18 years ago.

Local soybean producers shell out upwards of a half-million U.S. dollars to live in the complex. Nearby farm equipment sellers, car dealerships and construction supply stores are bustling too.

Meanwhile, nearly 5,000 miles to the north in Boone, Iowa, farmers are hunkering down. At a recent agriculture trade show here, Iowa corn and soybean grower Steve Sheppard reflected the cautious mood.

“I’m not buying any machinery, I’m not spending any money,” Sheppard said.

Two countries. Same business. Two very different fates. The reason: China.

A growing trade war between the United States and China is re-ordering the global grains business. In response to Trump administration tariffs on Chinese goods, Beijing this year imposed levies on U.S. agricultural products. Among them was a 25 percent tariff on soybeans, the single most valuable U.S. farm export. U.S. growers sold $12 billion worth to China last year alone.

The fallout has been quick. China, the world’s largest importer of soybeans, has scaled back purchases of U.S. grain to feed its massive hog herd.

It is turning instead to Brazil, which has ridden the wave of Chinese demand for two decades to become a global agricultural powerhouse. Brazilian soybean exports to the Asian country jumped 22 percent by value between January and September, compared to the same period a year ago.

Brazilian producers are not only selling more grain, their soy is fetching $2.83 more per bushel than beans from the United States, up from a premium of just $0.60 a year ago, thanks to stepped up Chinese purchases.

Prices for U.S. soybeans, meanwhile, recently sunk to decade lows that farmers say are below the cost of production. The slump has made the agricultural sector a drag on an otherwise healthy U.S. economy. The Trump administration said in July it would spend up to $12 billion in taxpayer funds to help U.S. farmers offset trade-related losses, although the aid package could shrink.

Many American farmers, overwhelmingly conservative voters who helped propel Donald Trump to the presidency, are standing by their man. They believe he will eventually negotiate a better trade deal with China, whose appetite for soybeans is so vast that it cannot completely wean itself off U.S. grain.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#373 LFC

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 03:56 PM

Trump is looking at turning it up yet again.

Quote

The United States announced Wednesday that it is preparing to pull out of an international postal treaty that allows China to ship packages to America at discounted rates. The move would escalate a trade dispute with China.

President Donald Trump argues that the 144-year-old Universal Post Union benefits China and other countries at the expense of U.S. businesses — making it cheaper to ship packages from Beijing to New York than from San Francisco to the U.S. East coast, which particularly benefits Chinese manufacturers. The officials say the treaty is used by shippers of the narcotic fentanyl to the U.S. from China.

The U.S. is willing to renegotiate the treaty over the next year but will leave the union if no agreement can be reached, the officials said.

Bishar Hussein, director of the Universal Postal Union, said he regrets the U.S. decision and will seek a meeting with American officials.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#374 Traveler

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 08:02 AM

About time.

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Here’s the problem: Arcane rules established by the 144-year-old Universal Postal Union make it possible for a Chinese e-retailer to send a package across the Pacific to a customer in the U.S. at a cost lower than what an American competitor would spend to ship the same item to a neighboring state.


This is because the union, which determines what national carriers can charge to deliver small packages and first-class letters originally sent from abroad, allows poor nations to pay lower rates than wealthy ones. That makes sense. But, insensibly, the union still places China, the world’s second-largest economy, in the same category as Bosnia, Botswana, Cuba and other developing countries. (India also gets some degree of preferential treatment.)


These steep postal discounts add to the considerable cost advantages Chinese manufacturers already have over American firms. And they hurt the United States Postal Service — which delivers packages that originate from China at a loss — and put private shippers like FedEx and UPS at a disadvantage.
Gloves are off now.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#375 LFC

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 10:53 AM

Trump has threatened to pull out of the Universal Postal Union over mailing rates with China.

Quote

No international letters, no international packages: A top official with a 192-country postal union says that's what Americans can expect if the Trump administration goes through with plans to pull out of an international postal treaty over concerns about China.

Pascal Clivaz, deputy director-general of the Switzerland-based Universal Postal Union, says the agency reached out quickly to U.S. officials after receiving a letter from U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo this week announcing Washington's plan to pull out of the union in a year if the treaty isn't renegotiated.

The U.S. says it's willing to renegotiate. But the threat is the latest sign of U.S. President Donald Trump's go-it-alone approach to many issues, from the environment to trade to the Iran nuclear deal.

"It will have dramatic consequences for American consumers. It will cost them enormously. They will be all alone against all the countries of the world," Clivaz told The Associated Press on Friday. "They won't even be able to send (a package) to a neighboring country. It's an accord that links everybody."

Word of the planned pullout is the latest facet of Washington's multi-level trade dispute with Beijing. The U.S. administration says the treaty allows China to ship packages to the U.S. at discounted rates at the expense of American businesses.

Clivaz acknowledged the U.S. concerns about China were at the root of the problem, but said agreements within the UPU since 2016 have moved toward "improving the issue with China."

"It's not at the level that Mr. Trump and others want it, but we're close. So we want to continue negotiating," he said.

So progress was since 2016 (a year which explains why Trump has to blow it up) and could continue without a hissy fit. As usual he has no idea what he's doing. Or maybe he does. Maybe he just blows up anything without any idea what to do next and waits for somebody else to fix it for him. What have we gotten for that so far? A big nothing-burger with Mexico, a big nothing-burger with Canada, the world ignoring us over Iran, Europe pissed off at us, nowhere with North Korea, and on and on. It's all for show so he can make a "deal" and feel good about himself.

Meanwhile we're looking at some real consequences.

Quote

A U.S. pullout from the 144-year-old organization, a specialized U.N. agency, would strip the U.S. from access to special codes needed to send and receive mail internationally, Clivaz said. Any U.S. companies that need them — like FedEx or UPS — would lose access too, he said.

"This agreement regulates all the issues: technical problems, customs issues, security issues. Without the codes, without this green light, you can't move a single letter or package," he said.

"The next step is in their court: to give us a meeting," Clivaz said of the U.S. government.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#376 Traveler

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 11:25 AM

This agreement is totally nuts. If these guys elect to play hardball and keep up their BS, the simple solution is to put a $50 tariff on every piece of mail from China or any other country that benefits unfairly. This and the WTO need serious reorganization.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#377 LFC

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 05:33 PM

Some of Trump's supporters are feeling first-hand the consequences of their votes. Tough shit. (That doesn't go for any of them who voted for Clinton, of course.)

Quote

Soybean farmers in North Dakota are experiencing significant economic hurt thanks to President Donald Trump’s trade war, and some of them aren’t sure their ability to trade with China will ever be fully restored.

The New York Times reports that soy farmers have been particularly hurt by retaliatory tariffs leveled against them by China, which accounts for more than half of the $26 million worth of soybeans America exports every year.

“I’m trying to follow and figure out who the winners are in this tariff war,” said farmer Greg Gebeke. “I know who one of the losers are and that’s us. And that’s painful.”

Things have gotten so bad that Gebeke’s wife, Debra, has recently unretired from her job as a psychologist because there’s such great demand for counseling among distraught farmers.

Even if Trump comes up with a trade deal to restore ties with China, some soy farmers fear that China will nonetheless start importing more soybeans from competitors to reduce the risk of being at the mercy of the United States during future trade fights.

“I’ve been to China 25 times in the last decade talking about the dependability of U.S. soybeans,” Kirk Leeds, the chief executive of the Iowa Soybean Association, tells the Times. “We have done long-term damage to the industry.”

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#378 golden_valley

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Posted 05 November 2018 - 06:06 PM

 LFC, on 05 November 2018 - 05:33 PM, said:

Some of Trump's supporters are feeling first-hand the consequences of their votes. Tough shit. (That doesn't go for any of them who voted for Clinton, of course.)

But I imagine some farmers (not featured in this article) are saying Trump kept his promise to get tough and they're sure Trump is busy negotiating deals for exporting American soybeans with other countries.

#379 LFC

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 09:55 AM

Remember that $12B bailout of the farmers who ended up screwed by Trump's trade war? Well waddya' know, they've seen very little of it.

Quote

A promised $12 billion fund created by the Trump administration to “make it up” to farmers hit by his trade war with China has only seen $838 million paid out, the New York Times reports. Figures from the Department of Agriculture showed that few farmers have been helped since the first $6 billion pot of money was made available in September. Another pool of up to $6 billion is expected to become available next month—Sonny Perdue, the agriculture secretary, said it's unlikely any money beyond that will be available. Trump's trade war with China has seen American farmers have their access reduced to a critical market for soybeans, farm equipment and other products. “This was supposed to make sure farmers were not the victims of this trade policy,” said Jim Mulhern, president of the National Milk Producers Federation. “I think most agriculture producers feel that the payments have not come close to making up for the damage for the tariffs.”


It's "almost" as if Trump didn't think about them (quite possibly the most obvious and expected targets of retaliation by China) one tiny little bit when launching his "easy to win" trade war. And with the mid-terms past he's not thinking about them now.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer





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