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Republican Tax "Reform" or Who Gets a Pony & Whose Ox Is Gored


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#41 LFC

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 04:57 PM

Paul Ryan promises the country a pony. When I listen to his magical thinking all I can wonder is, "what color is the sky in your world?"

Quote

The U.S. Republican tax cut plan that President Donald Trump wants passed by year’s end is unlikely to trigger a big deficit expansion because it will spur more investment and job growth, U.S. House of Representatives Speaker Paul Ryan told Reuters in an interview on Wednesday.

“We believe that we’ll get faster economic growth,” Ryan said. “We don’t anticipate a big deficit effect from this tax reform because we will broaden the base and lower the rates, plug loopholes and get faster economic growth. … Those things combined, we believe, will give us faster growth and a more resilient tax code.”

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#42 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 05:25 AM

View PostLFC, on 25 October 2017 - 04:57 PM, said:

Paul Ryan promises the country a pony. When I listen to his magical thinking all I can wonder is, "what color is the sky in your world?"

It’s a religious attachment to the ideal of trickle down. No amount of evidence that it will not work matters when it is an element of dogma. Lower taxes spur growth and the divinity of Ayn Rand are not to be questioned; lest the Inquisition pay you a visit!

Trump delenda est.
GOP delenda est.
Resist!

#43 LFC

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 09:12 AM

View PostProgressive whisperer, on 26 October 2017 - 05:25 AM, said:

It’s a religious attachment to the ideal of trickle tinkle down.

FTFY
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#44 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 09:18 AM

View PostLFC, on 25 October 2017 - 04:57 PM, said:

Paul Ryan promises the country a pony. When I listen to his magical thinking all I can wonder is, "what color is the sky in your world?"

Green.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
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"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#45 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 09:32 AM

View PostLFC, on 26 October 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:



FTFY

Die heretic!

Trump delenda est.
GOP delenda est.
Resist!

#46 LFC

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 09:38 AM

Posted Image
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#47 LFC

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 02:01 PM

The House looks like it's going to get rid of the state and local tax deduction, which means they'll be taxing tax. They'll also ensure that the blue states fund the red states even more. I suspect their hope is that more states will cut their taxes in a race to the bottom, eventually making them all as "functional" as Kansas. They'll still allow deduction of property taxes though. So remind me, which of these two taxes does Texas have?

Quote

Republican tax legislation due to be released this week in the U.S. House of Representatives will not include a deduction for state and local income taxes, the top House Republican on tax policy said on Tuesday.

House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Kevin Brady said in a radio interview with commentator Hugh Hewitt that the emerging bill will offer relief only on property taxes. Brady spoke as House Republican leaders sought to broker an agreement with Republican lawmakers who want the state and local income tax deduction to remain.

Asked if there would be relief on the income side of state and local taxes, Brady replied: “The answer is ‘no.’ … Our lawmakers in those high-tax states really believe their families are being punished most by property taxes.”

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#48 Beelzebuddy

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 04:51 PM

View PostLFC, on 31 October 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

...So remind me, which of these two taxes does Texas have?
Property and sales tax are the only taxes I'm aware of.
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#49 LFC

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 04:54 PM

View PostBeelzebuddy, on 31 October 2017 - 04:51 PM, said:

Property and sales tax are the only taxes I'm aware of.

Neither of which seem to be slated for removal. Hmmmm.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#50 AnBr

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 08:24 PM

Susan Collins on tax goals.

Quote

“I do not believe that the top rate should be lowered for individuals who are making more than $1 million a year,” Collins told Bloomberg News in an interview.

One of just a handful of moderate Republicans in the Senate, the lawmaker said she has expressed her "concern" to GOP leaders about slashing the individual tax rate for top earners and repealing the estate tax, two elements of President Trump's tax reform plan.

The Maine lawmaker defended the estate tax, which takes 40 percent from estates after an exemption for $5.49 million for individuals or $10.98 million for couples.

“I don’t think there’s any need to eliminate the estate tax.”

The levy, she argued, does not affect “the vast majority of family-owned businesses and farms and ranches,” while saying “certain tax cuts done right will increase economic growth.”

Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

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#51 AnBr

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 08:29 PM

View PostLFC, on 31 October 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

The House looks like it's going to get rid of the state and local tax deduction, which means they'll be taxing tax. They'll also ensure that the blue states fund the red states even more. I suspect their hope is that more states will cut their taxes in a race to the bottom, eventually making them all as "functional" as Kansas. They'll still allow deduction of property taxes though. So remind me, which of these two taxes does Texas have?

It also holds with a trend that I have noticed with Repug tax cutting. Often it is not really a cut as much as a shift in the burden from federal to state to local with each shift becoming less and less progressive. I no longer have a link to it, but once a law maker calculated the total tax burden demographically. what he found is that it was the older inner suburbs that paid the most percentage wise.
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#52 andydp

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 06:04 AM

View PostAnBr, on 31 October 2017 - 08:29 PM, said:

It also holds with a trend that I have noticed with Repug tax cutting. Often it is not really a cut as much as a shift in the burden from federal to state to local with each shift becoming less and less progressive. I no longer have a link to it, but once a law maker calculated the total tax burden demographically. what he found is that it was the older inner suburbs that paid the most percentage wise.

For a quick look at the "shift", one only has to go as far as New Jersey. Because of budget shortfalls (surprise) there was no money in the highway fund. So NJ raised their gas tax by about 20 cents. Of course this was greeted with moans and gripes by NJ residents. No one bothered to note since the "Freedom Caucus" refused to raise the Fed gas tax, NJ had no choice but to raise their gas tax or see all their road projects come to a stop.
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If you've got public schools paid for by taxpayers, you're in a socialist nation. If you have public roads paid for by taxpayers, socialist nation. If you've got public defense (police, fire, military, coast guard) paid for by tax dollars, socialist nation. If you're in a nation that has nationalized or localized delivery of services that are not paid for by users alone, you're in a socialist nation- the only question is how socialist. As I see it, we have the military pay to protecting the shipping lanes for our fuel needs which makes up very socialist. In a capitalist nation, the people supplying the oil would pay for their own defense force.


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#53 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 07:48 AM

View PostAnBr, on 31 October 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:


Having "expressed her concerns" she'll vote for whatever McConnell hands her.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#54 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 07:54 AM

View PostAnBr, on 31 October 2017 - 08:29 PM, said:

It also holds with a trend that I have noticed with Repug tax cutting. Often it is not really a cut as much as a shift in the burden from federal to state to local with each shift becoming less and less progressive. I no longer have a link to it, but once a law maker calculated the total tax burden demographically. what he found is that it was the older inner suburbs that paid the most percentage wise.

Recently posted at either DeLong or Bernstein, there's charts out there that show the total tax burden in the USA and it's only progressive at all if you squint just right.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#55 Traveler

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 09:24 AM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 01 November 2017 - 07:48 AM, said:

Having "expressed her concerns" she'll vote for whatever McConnell hands her.
Well, she did stand up to the health care bill.
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#56 Practical Girl

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 09:56 AM

View PostBeelzebuddy, on 31 October 2017 - 04:51 PM, said:

Property and sales tax are the only taxes I'm aware of.

Yep, and the sales tax deduction is often more complicated for average filings than it's worth.

As you know, property taxes are lopsided in this state, to "make up" for "no state income tax". They get you any way they can...Pushing people out, as we speak. Yes. If property tax deduction goes on the chopping block, TX lawmakers would throw a fit, as would many states with higher than normal property taxes. Would be problematic for the Republicans, I'd think, but any party that would even float the idea of ridding the tax benefits of retirement plans is not to be trusted.
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“A republic,” Franklin said, “if you can keep it.”


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#57 LFC

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 12:40 PM

View PostAnBr, on 31 October 2017 - 08:29 PM, said:

Often it is not really a cut as much as a shift in the burden from federal to state to local with each shift becoming less and less progressive.

The ideology is that the federal gov't should be very small so let's starve it and push as much of the burden of actually governing as possible onto the states. State level Republicans then pick up the same baton, cut taxes, and push the burden of governing onto ... well, uuuuuh, errrrr, ... FREEDOM!!!!! When their entire willingness to govern consists of cutting taxes (and a handful of culture war items) then they can't actually expect a government that functions yet somehow they do. They really do.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#58 JackD

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 03:15 PM

Or, if they're Governor Kasich, they cut spending t the state level and pass the costs down to counties an municipalities.

#59 LFC

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 03:30 PM

View PostJackD, on 01 November 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

Or, if they're Governor Kasich, they cut spending t the state level and pass the costs down to counties an municipalities.

Tinkle Down Economics redefined down to YOYO Economics.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#60 AnBr

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 09:55 PM

View PostJackD, on 01 November 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

Or, if they're Governor Kasich, they cut spending t the state level and pass the costs down to counties an municipalities.

I already said from national to state to local.

View PostAnBr, on 31 October 2017 - 08:29 PM, said:

it is not really a cut as much as a shift in the burden from federal to state to local with each shift becoming less and less progressive.

Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937





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