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Republican Tax "Reform" or Who Gets a Pony & Whose Ox Is Gored


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#1 LFC

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 01:18 PM

As Trump and Ryan push for tax "reform" it will be interesting to see what they try to push through. We all know that if Ryan is primary driving force, the wealthy will be showered with buckets of tax breaks and the middle class will get screwed but there are a lot of entrenched interests. I expect the end product to still be weighted in Ryan's direction but it will be "interesting" to see what makes it and what doesn't.

For a first entry I offer up the possibility of killing the deduction for state and local taxes, including real estate tax.

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In a place like Moorestown, the leafy South Jersey suburb, the average homeowner shells out an eye-popping $11,693 a year in property taxes.

But there’s at least one benefit at this time of year: deducting that bill on your federal income taxes. For a homeowner near the top tax bracket, it could mean saving more than $4,000.

That benefit, though, may not last.

House Republicans have called for eliminating the popular deduction — one claimed by millions of New Jerseyans and Pennsylvanians — as part of a plan to simplify the tax code and cut rates across the board.

GOP leaders insist that under their proposal, which would erase many special carve-outs, everyone will ultimately pay less in federal taxes.

But it won’t be so easy. No one willingly gives up a benefit.

“I’m going to fight this tooth and nail,” said Rep. Bill Pascrell (D., N.J.), the only New Jerseyan on the tax-writing Ways and Means Committee. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, a Democrat, has called the idea “devastating.”

Residents in their two states, along with Californians, reap the most from the provision that lets people deduct state and local tax payments on their federal tax returns, according to a study last year from the Tax Policy Center. It largely benefits wealthy people in high-tax states.

Pennsylvania, due to its population size, is also near the top of the states whose residents invoke the deduction.

There is actually a good argument for keeping this deduction; the federal government would effectively be taxing taxes.

On the political front this will, of course, have the biggest impact on the blue and purple states. They bring in the most dollars and have the highest costs of living. They are the sources of net positive tax revenue while most red states are sinks. States with low incomes, low costs of living, and low taxes because they don't value education (yes, I'm looking at you Kansas and Wisconsin) will feel the least impact.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#2 pnwguy

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 08:41 PM

Remember too, that red states like sales taxes over income taxes, because it is far more regressive and better for the wealthy. Since it's easy to verify income and property taxes, while sales taxes are difficult to prove, people in red states have less ability to use the federal deduction. Apart from big ticket items like auto purchases, who can reasonably show the amount of state sales tax you pay on hundreds of transactions throughout a year?

So since red state people can't use the deduction easily, and the wealthy will do far better with lower federal rates, this is EXACTLY what the GOP donor class wants.
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#3 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 11:33 AM

You will note that, on the other hand, the mortgage interest deduction is in absolutely no danger.
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These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
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#4 LFC

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 02:56 PM

Tax reform is in danger of complete Democratic opposition because Trump refuses to release his tax returns so nobody knows which policy changes would personally enrich him and his children. It's a very powerful talking point and the Dems are totally willing to drive it forward. Good.

Quote

President Trump’s promise to enact a sweeping overhaul of the tax code is in serious jeopardy nearly 100 days into his tenure, and his refusal to release his own tax returns is emerging as a central hurdle to another faltering campaign promise.

As procrastinators rushed to file their tax returns by Tuesday, the White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, emphasized again on Monday that Mr. Trump had no intention of making his public. Democrats have seized on that decision, uniting around a pledge not to cooperate on any rewriting of the tax code unless they know specifically how that revision would benefit the billionaire president and his family.

And a growing roster of more than a dozen Republican lawmakers now say Mr. Trump should release them.

“If he doesn’t release his returns, it is going to make it much more difficult to get tax reform done,” said Senator Chuck Schumer, the Democratic leader, pointing out that the president has significant conflicts of interest on issues such as taxation of the real estate industry and elimination of the estate tax. “It’s in his own self-interest.”


Trump is floundering so badly on this one that even Larry Kudlow can see it. Yes, the same Larry Kudlow who kept crowing about the "Bush Boom" even as it was obvious to everybody that we were headed for serious shit.

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A tax overhaul could be the next expansive Trump campaign promise that falters before it even gathered much steam.

“If they have no plan, they can’t negotiate,” said Larry Kudlow, the economist who helped Mr. Trump devise his campaign tax plan. “In that case, tax reform is dead.”

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#5 LFC

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 12:32 PM

Everything I've been hearing about Trump's "plan" say the centerpiece is a huge rate cut for business, as expected, from 35% to 15%. Anybody want to bet that there will be fewer write-offs for business as well? There are also lower brackets for everybody and expanded deductions (what happened to simplification, Donny?) that will mostly benefit the wealthy. And how to pay for these massive cuts? No problem! They'll pay for themselves! Seriously, they are still mouthing this same ridiculous and repeatedly discredited belief. Even some Republicans are backing off from this level of serial madness.

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While some Republican lawmakers cheerfully echoed to TPM the White House line that the tax cuts will “pay for themselves” by spurring massive economic growth, both official government analyses and conservative economists are much more skeptical.

“There’s no pure tax cut that pays for itself,” Alan Cole, an economist at the right-leaning Tax Foundation, told the Associated Press.

Len Burman, the co-founder of the Tax Policy Center think tank, characterized it as “wishful thinking.” Bruce Bartlett, an economist who advised the Reagan and George W. Bush administrations, has likened these calculations to “using smoke and mirrors to institutionalize Republican ideology into the budget process.” George Callas, who serves as senior tax counsel to House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-WI), dismissed the framework as a “magic unicorn” whose main impact would be akin to “dropping cash out of helicopters on corporate headquarters.”

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#6 AnBr

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 12:54 PM

Laffer’s Theory on Tax Cuts Comes to Life Once More

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A white cloth napkin, now displayed in the National Museum of American History, helped change the course of modern economics. On it, the economist Arthur Laffer in 1974 sketched a curve meant to illustrate his theory that cutting taxes would spur enough economic growth to generate new tax revenue.

More than 40 years after those scribblings, President Trump is reviving the so-called Laffer curve as he announces the broad outlines of a tax overhaul on Wednesday. What the first President George Bush once called “voodoo economics” is back, as Mr. Trump’s advisers argue that deep cuts in corporate taxes will ultimately pay for themselves with an explosion of new business and job creation.

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

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On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

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Second inaugural address January, 1937

#7 Traveler

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 01:03 PM

What a waste of good linen.
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#8 LFC

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 05:28 PM

I'll defend the Laffer Curve once again because I think it makes sense. The problem is that Republicans believe in only one half of it and can't accept that cutting too far crushes revenue. Either that or they believe the inflection point is somewhere around 3%. I remember seeing some studies where they couldn't discern any long-term impact pretty much anyplace below 35%. Does that mean that 50% still doesn't decrease revenue? I suppose it all depends upon what you do with it; build infrastructure, improve schools, and create a strong social safety net or spend far more on defense than any other nation.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#9 LFC

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 05:34 PM

More details on the Trump Wealthy Welfare Proposal. The biggies are the full repeal of AMT and estate taxes. So much self-dealing in one policy proposal.

Quote

President Trump on Wednesday proposed sharp reductions in both individual and corporate income tax rates, reducing the number of individual income tax brackets to three — 10 percent, 25 percent and 35 percent — and easing the tax burden on most Americans, including the rich.

The Trump administration would double the standard deduction, essentially eliminating taxes on the first $24,000 of a couple’s earnings. It also called for the elimination of most itemized tax deductions but would leave in place the popular deductions for mortgage interest and charitable contributions. The estate tax and the alternative minimum tax, which Mr. Trump has railed against for years, would be repealed under his plan.

As expected, the White House did not include in its plan the border adjustment tax on imports that was prized by House Republicans. However, it did express broad support for switching to a so-called territorial tax system that would exempt company earnings abroad from taxation but would encourage companies to maintain their headquarters in the United States.

The plan would include a special one-time tax to entice companies to repatriate cash that they are parking overseas.

Mr. Trump also signaled support for changes to the tax code that would help families with child-care costs. His plan also would end the 3.8 percent tax on investment income that was imposed by the Affordable Care Act.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#10 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 07:00 PM

Part of the amusement value of the Laffer Curve is that it's applied to all income, regardless, the theory being that at lower tax rates people will work harder for more payoff. Not explained is how this applies to capital income -- does a lower rate on capital gains make your bonds work harder? Of course, capital income is already given preferential treatment, and the bonds don't seem to be working any harder than before (although businesses do seem to be handing out more dividends rather than wasting money on investments.)
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#11 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 05:59 AM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 26 April 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

Part of the amusement value of the Laffer Curve is that it's applied to all income, regardless, the theory being that at lower tax rates people will work harder for more payoff. Not explained is how this applies to capital income -- does a lower rate on capital gains make your bonds work harder? Of course, capital income is already given preferential treatment, and the bonds don't seem to be working any harder than before (although businesses do seem to be handing out more dividends rather than wasting money on investments.)

Making capital or bonds lower tax rate income means those capitalists work harder at making the money to invest. Or invest more, instead of spending it on hookers and blow. At least it keeps the capitalists from being sad. Priorities, man!

Trump delenda est.
GOP delenda est.
Resist!

#12 LFC

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 01:00 PM

In a classic case of "no shit, Sherlock", economists agree that Trump's tax plans would never pay for themselves.

Quote

More than 35 American economists surveyed last week disagree with a basic element of President Trump’s proposed tax plan: whether it will pay for itself. In an unusual display of unity, 100 percent of participating economists rejected the idea this week that Trump’s plans to drastically lower taxes on corporations, business, and individuals will create enough economic growth to offset the lost federal revenue and avoid adding to the national debt.

Two economists initially wrote they agreed the plan would pay for itself, but when emailed by Vox, they both said they’d made mistakes on the survey.

On Tuesday, the University of Chicago Booth School of Business released results from a poll of 42 renowned economists. When asked to evaluate the claim that Trump’s tax cuts will pay for themselves through economic growth, 84 percent disagreed (five of the economists didn’t weigh in). When I contacted the two economists whose opinions differed, they said that their answers were an error, and that they actually disagreed with the claim.

I “screwed up,” Stanford economist Kenneth Judd wrote to me in an email. He misread the question and meant to answer that he “strongly disagreed.”

So it turns out that 100 percent of the economists who participated in the survey doubt Trump can create enough economic growth with his tax cuts. They described the idea as “implausible” and “a deficit stimulus.” Several comments were, by economist standards, acerbic.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#13 Beelzebuddy

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 05:48 PM

Quote

Several comments were, by economist standards, acerbic.

lol - I wonder what counts as acerbic by economist's standards
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Cui bono?

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#14 LFC

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 04:55 PM

We don't have all the details yet but we're getting a pretty good idea who gets the pony and who gets gored. The weird thing is that other than payoff for their masters it makes no political sense. It's like Republicans can't even pull off a basic tax cut for the wealthy and some scraps for everybody else plan.

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What Republicans are calling “tax reform” is shaping up as the worst kind of legislative mess. To the degree we know specifics, the plan would amount to a massive windfall for the wealthiest Americans. This is hardly surprising. What is surprising are the ways the chaos and disorganization within the GOP (and perhaps also a sense of invulnerability) have led to the creation of a law which would actually hurt a lot of people who really don’t need to be hurt and are politically powerful to boot.

Let me explain what I mean.

Here the 2001 Bush tax cut is the archetype. The law was a windfall for the very wealthy. But for very good political reasons, the authors of the bill were careful to make sure the great majority of Americans did get some tax relief. The gains for middle and lower income people were meager, arguably trivial. But the Bush team could say accurately that there was relief for everyone or close to everyone. The political logic of doing this is obvious.

The Trump ‘tax reform’ actually manages to raise taxes on a substantial number of people. Big picture, it’s a massive tax cut for the very wealthy and the mind-bogglingly wealthy, paid for – among other things – by a substantial tax increase for the upper middle class and the only moderately wealthy. The moderately wealthy can probably afford to pay higher taxes. Why they should do so to fund massive cuts for the extremely wealthy isn’t at all clear. What is significant on a political calculus is that wealthy people vote and make their views heard in the political world, through campaign contributions and in other ways as well. Put simply, they can fight back. That may not be fair. But it is the system we live in today. That makes this legislation not just bad policy but highly questionable politics.

The bill also ends tax deductions that are mainly enjoyed by people in blue states. The biggest example is the ability to deduct state income taxes against federal taxes. This hits lots of voters in states with significant income taxes, many quite wealthy but also a lot of middle class families.

There are two points to note about this. It’s not just bad policy. It’s hazardous politics. It’s not fair but more affluent people have much more ability to fight back than more marginalized or poorer populations. The Trump crew is figuring it’s not a problem since a lot of those people are in blue states and thus don’t matter. But it’s not quite that clear. There are red or purple states with income taxes. There are also lots of GOP members of the House of Representatives in Republican districts in blue states. Look how many Republicans there are in the California House delegation.

The other point to note is that Republicans and particularly President Trump have been arguing that this is a question of equity, that red states are subsidizing blue states with this exemption. There is a narrow argument here. Income tax states get a deduction than no-income tax states don’t, in practice, get. There’s nothing for them to deduct. But in the great majority of cases those income tax states send far more tax money to the federal government than they get back. The money ends up going to (mainly) low tax red states which get much more back from the federal government than they pay in taxes. In other words, in the vast majority of cases the subsidy is going in the opposite direction.

Setting aside the policy equities involved, Trump and the GOP are bringing the politics of grievance to tax policy, arguing that red states which are subsidized by blue states are actually being victimized. There’s a lot here that bears watching.

It goes on about the politics. The upshot is that now all we have to do is hope the Dems can figure out how to take advantage of this political gift. I'm not holding out a whole lot of hope.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#15 LFC

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 12:32 PM

I think Art Laffer's abundant hair dye has sunk in through his skull and caused brain damage. After all the failure of previous tax cuts he still can't see reality.

Quote

President Donald Trump is making early moves to place the blame on Democrats if Congress is unable to pass the President’s favored tax cut plan.

After apparently watching a Fox Business Network interview Monday morning with former President Ronald Reagan Economic Adviser Art Laffer, Trump paraphrased some of Laffer’s comments on Twitter, saying Laffer “doesn’t know how a Democrat could vote against the big tax cut/reform bill and live with themselves!”

[snip]

During his interview on Fox Business, Laffer did say he is “hoping the Democrats vote” for Trump’s tax proposal because “they should vote with it, they believe in it, they want it.” Laffer didn’t necessarily say he didn’t think Democrats could live with themselves if they voted down the proposal, but rather said he didn’t know how a Democrat could “vote against this bill and hold his face up high to the electorate.”

Meanwhile fellow economic incompetent Kevin Hassett (author of 1999's "Dow 36,000") is the "brains" behind the Trumpian tax cut math.

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By slashing corporate tax rates, the Trump administration said Monday, the average U.S. household will get an estimated $4,000 more a year.

This stunning 5 percent increase is likely to be met with skepticism from tax experts and Democratic lawmakers. Spread across every U.S. household, the White House analysis claims it would generate “conservatively” an income jump totaling $504 billion, or about $200 billion more than the revenues currently generated by the corporate income tax.

With this new report, the White House is making a populist argument for its proposal to cut the 35 percent corporate tax rate to 20 percent. Trump has pitched his tax plan as supporting the middle class even though the details point to major companies and the wealthy as the biggest winners. Polls suggest that voters generally frown upon the idea of cutting taxes for businesses — essentially rewarding these firms for avoiding taxes by exploiting loopholes and keeping profits overseas.

The analysis by Kevin Hassett, chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, said that the considerably lower rate would spur more investment by companies, which would then boost hiring and worker productivity. The average income gains from the reduced rate would range from $4,000 to as high as $9,000, the administration said. Those figures, however, rely on research arguing that workers — rather than investors — would primarily benefit from the lower corporate rates.

Separate studies, including a 2012 Treasury Department analysis, found that the vast majority of any savings would go to investors, making it unlikely to push up wages as much as the administration has argued. The administration removed the 2012 analysis from the Treasury Department’s website after releasing its tax framework last month with Republican congressional leaders.

Wingnut welfare keeps asshats like this going. No matter how wrong they've been over and over and over they are still beloved as long as they faithfully preach the gospel. So when do they drag Larry Kudlow out of whatever cave he's been living in after being repeatedly wrong?
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#16 LFC

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 01:56 PM

Kevin Williamson at the National Review (of all places) calls out the right-wing myth of tax cuts paying for themselves.

Quote

Republicans want to cut taxes by $1.5 trillion — while the government already is running a deficit — and they propose to offset those cuts with wishful thinking.

In control of both houses of Congress with a nominally Republican president in the White House, they are pursuing the dead opposite of the immigration policy touted by Donald Trump on the campaign trail, and considering something close to the opposite of their longstanding promises on health care. They are embarrassed by their inability to execute any proposal of great consequence, and have retreated into that great Republican safe space: tax cuts, the more irresponsible the better.

Congressional Republicans argue that they can in good conscience pass these tax cuts without any corresponding spending cuts or other countervailing measures on the theory that the tax cuts will produce economic growth, and that this economic growth will be so substantial that it will entirely offset the revenue theoretically lost to the tax cuts. There is very little evidence to support this theory, but Republicans remain fond of it.

He also calls Republicans out on always taking the easy road of tax cuts and never taking the hard one of spending cut.

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Diane Black’s political problem — conservatives’ political problem — is America’s political problem: Tax cuts are popular, and spending cuts are not.

Representative Black (R., Tenn.) has been chairman of the House Budget Committee for about a year, and she’s enjoyed the experience so much that she’s . . . trying to get the hell out of Washington, hoping to head to Nashville as Tennessee’s next governor. (She declined to comment on the gubernatorial race.) It is difficult to blame her for not wanting to cling to that gavel: Running the House Budget Committee is kind of a stupid job.

Not that it’s an unimportant job — far from it: In fact, it is a critically important post. A few years ago, I was invited to speak to a group of Republicans on the House Budget Committee, and I told them as plainly as I could that the decisions made by their panel and its Senate counterpart over the next several years would very likely mean the difference between a relatively manageable national fiscal crisis at some point in the future and an uncontrollable national fiscal catastrophe with worldwide consequences. I also told them that I was not entirely confident that they’d make the right choices. I wasn’t invited back.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#17 andydp

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 02:33 PM

They are embarrassed by their inability to execute any proposal of great consequence, and have retreated into that great Republican safe space: tax cuts, the more irresponsible the better.

Just following the mantra:

Democrat debt: Spawn of Satan. GOP debt: "Deficits don't matter"
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

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Obamacare took my guns away and put me in a FEMA reeducation camp.

Anonymous

If you've got public schools paid for by taxpayers, you're in a socialist nation. If you have public roads paid for by taxpayers, socialist nation. If you've got public defense (police, fire, military, coast guard) paid for by tax dollars, socialist nation. If you're in a nation that has nationalized or localized delivery of services that are not paid for by users alone, you're in a socialist nation- the only question is how socialist. As I see it, we have the military pay to protecting the shipping lanes for our fuel needs which makes up very socialist. In a capitalist nation, the people supplying the oil would pay for their own defense force.


DC Coronata

#18 LFC

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 02:27 PM

A Democrat speaks up rather eloquently on the GOP plan to create yet more unpaid for tax cuts.

Quote

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR) on Thursday blasted President Donald Trump’s treasury secretary, Steve Mnuchin, for using dubious economic projections to sell a tax cut plan that will largely benefit the wealthiest Americans.

“It certainly isn’t a tax recipe focused on the middle class,” Wyden explained in a speech on the Senate floor. “The treasury secretary doubled down on the failed experiment that tax cuts pay for themselves. Forget the history that says that isn’t true. The Trump treasury secretary said that the tax cuts won’t just pay for themselves, they’ll raise an additional trillion dollars in revenue on top of their own costs.”

“The fact is, Mr. President, there is no magical growth fairy, no unicorns, no kind of growth fairies that are going to somehow spring to life if this tax cut plan becomes law,” the Oregon Democrat charged. “But our secretary, Treasury Secretary Mnuchin, keeps going back to the unicorns, keeps going back to rainbow economics.”

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#19 Art_Vandelay

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 06:31 AM

Mnuchin Says Estate Tax Repeal Will Help ‘Rich People’ Most

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WASHINGTON — President Trump and Republican leaders have positioned a proposed repeal of the estate tax as a way to help farmers, ranchers and small business owners. But on Friday, Steven Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary, offered a significant concession about who would benefit the most if the so-called death tax disappears: the rich.

Speaking at the Institute for International Finance conference, Mr. Mnuchin said the estate tax should be eliminated for both philosophical and economic reasons. He said that many taxpayers give the government half their income during their lives and that they should not have to give away a big chunk when they die — even if their families are wealthy.

“Obviously, the estate tax, I will concede, disproportionately helps rich people,” Mr. Mnuchin said of the administration’s proposal to repeal the measure.

Mr. Mnuchin’s comments contrasted starkly with his boss, President Trump, who pilloried the estate tax in a speech in Indiana last month by saying it is a drag on the working class.

“To protect millions of small businesses and the American farmer, we are finally ending the crushing, the horrible, the unfair estate tax, or as it is often referred to, the death tax,” Mr. Trump said.


#20 LFC

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 07:28 AM

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President Trump and Republican leaders have positioned a proposed repeal of the estate tax as a way to help farmers, ranchers and small business owners.

Bullshit.

Quote

He said that many taxpayers give the government half their income during their lives and that they should not have to give away a big chunk when they die — even if their families are wealthy.

Lie.

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Mr. Mnuchin’s comments contrasted starkly with his boss, President Trump, who pilloried the estate tax in a speech in Indiana last month by saying it is a drag on the working class.

Big lie.

I still think Canada has the right idea on the estate tax. Marital and charitable* transfers at death are untaxed just as they are in the U.S. All other transfers are valued and considered to be sold. The resulting gains are included in the decedent's final income tax return and taxed appropriately. In this way the money doesn't escape taxation like so many assets in the U.S. do but the heirs still get the step up in basis. This is a perfectly rational and perfectly fair system ... which is why I never expect us to adopt it.

* I have reservations about the unlimited charitable deduction. When Mitt Romney dies should he be able to past tens of millions of dollars that have never been taxed on to the Mormon Church? The definition of "charitable organization" is awfully broad and ripe for abuse.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer





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