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So what about this Brexit thing?


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#61 MSheridan

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 12:00 PM

View PostAnBr, on 24 June 2016 - 11:52 AM, said:


I thought that was going to be a humorous piece. Sweet sacred Spaghetti Sauce, that's utterly terrifying.

#62 AnBr

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 12:01 PM

The British are frantically Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

Quote

That confusion over what Brexit might mean for the country's economy appears to have been reflected across the United Kingdom on Thursday. Google reported sharp upticks in searches not only related to the ballot measure but also about basic questions concerning the implications of the vote. At about 1 a.m. Eastern time, about eight hours after the polls closed, Google reported that searches for "what happens if we leave the EU" had more than tripled.

“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#63 AnBr

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 12:07 PM

Leave voter 'disappointed' and wishes to vote remain
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#64 indy

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 12:12 PM

I guess nobody needs to worry about Trump's relationship with Cameron any more.

#65 MSheridan

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 12:16 PM

View PostAnBr, on 24 June 2016 - 12:07 PM, said:


The man she is standing with--boyfriend or husband or whatever--did you see him momentarily stop looking at her to gaze off into the middle distance, smiling faintly, just after she says she's disappointed in getting the very result she voted for?

#66 AnBr

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 12:17 PM

EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum

Quote

Parliament considers all petitions that get more than 100,000 signatures for a debate

Already has 154,236 signatures.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#67 indy

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 12:18 PM

The way I understand it, the next PM will be chosen by about 150000 British conservatives. I don't think this train wreck is over quite yet.

#68 AnBr

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 12:30 PM

Posted Image
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#69 indy

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 12:47 PM

Scottish vote was 62-38 to remain. No doubt another independence vote there and this time it will pass. The UK may have to drop that U part.

#70 AnBr

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 01:00 PM

Brexit’s message: It feels good to tell them all to bugger off
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#71 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 01:13 PM

View Postindy, on 24 June 2016 - 12:47 PM, said:

Scottish vote was 62-38 to remain. No doubt another independence vote there and this time it will pass. The UK may have to drop that U part.

There's still Wales!

Yeah, not a kingdom, so you're right.

Also brings to mind the line from A Man For All Seasons: It profit a man not to sell his soul for the whole world; but for Wales?
Trump delenda est.
GOP delenda est.
Resist!

#72 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 01:17 PM

View PostAnBr, on 24 June 2016 - 01:00 PM, said:


Feels good, until you realize the rich guy doesn't care, and it's you who have to squat in the ashes.

The American version is its okay as long as the "other" guys have smaller heaps of ashes to squat in.

Trump delenda est.
GOP delenda est.
Resist!

#73 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 01:21 PM

View PostMSheridan, on 24 June 2016 - 12:00 PM, said:



I thought that was going to be a humorous piece. Sweet sacred Spaghetti Sauce, that's utterly terrifying.

The joy of democracy: his vote counts equally with yours.

Some days I'll take our veto-point laden system over purer democracy.
Trump delenda est.
GOP delenda est.
Resist!

#74 MSheridan

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 01:34 PM

View PostRich T Bikkies, on 24 June 2016 - 02:20 AM, said:

[...]

And what's going to happen in Northern Ireland? They voted to stay. As soon as the Prime Minister triggers the Leave process under the treaty, the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic will eventually become a reality, because it will become an international land border between Britain and the EU, where passports will have to be shown. And there will be no going back. What if Sinn Fein starts saying “Even the Protestants want to stay in. They don't want a border. We never wanted a border. We always wanted a United Ireland. We still want a United Ireland”. Will the IRA start bombing on the mainland again? I remember the early seventies, when a bomb destroyed a cafe in Euston Station, to which I commuted by train every day. Nobody was killed or injured. That time.

Brexit: Scotland, Northern Ireland move toward independence votes

Excerpt:

Quote

Northern Ireland also voted to remain with the EU, but a slightly smaller margin than Scotland, 56 percent to 44 percent. Sinn Fein quickly pushed for a re-united Ireland.

Sinn Fein's national chairman Declan Kearney said "English voters are dragging Northern Ireland out of the EU. This British Government has forfeited any mandate to represent the economic or political interests of people in Northern Ireland.

"We now have a situation where Brexit has become a further cost of partition," Kearney said. "A further cost of the Union and Sinn Fein will now press our demand, our long standing demand, for a border poll."

And yes, Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness (and member of the Sinn Féin party) has now called for a border poll on a united Ireland.

#75 MSheridan

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 01:42 PM

Opinion in the Times of London:

It will take an age to recover from this victory for the exit fantasists
by Philip Collins

Conclusion:

Quote

You will then find, of course, that when the white working class says “immigration” it means something more than the presence of Polish plumbers and Romanian fruit pickers. It means that life is hard, that employment prospects are bleak and that work is either unavailable or of really low quality. It is beyond laughable that the exit fantasists have the first idea what to do about this. Frankly most of them have never shown the slightest concern about that before. Well, it’s their problem now.

They are going to find that everything is their problem now. So then exit fantasist, it is time to make good on your histrionic promise of liberty. Everything that happens is on your watch. All the tribulations and vicissitudes of the economy are yours. The pound fell to its lowest point since 1985 and the Bank of England is poised to intervene. Standard and Poor’s have said that the UK will lose its fine credit rating. The stock market was down 8.5 per cent in early trading. This is not just a downgrade in the value of assets. It is a leading indicator of the financial turmoil to come. If there is a recession, it is your recession. If inflation goes up and interest rates follow with an attendant spate of repossessions, it’s all yours. Well done.

And for what, exit fantasist? For what? The notion that Britain was not free until the early hours of this morning is the single most childish claim I have ever heard in British politics. I have heard grown people, who ought to know better, talk of serfdom and calling June 23rd “independence day”. This is thinking that is profoundly unconservative, placing an abstract idea above the concrete facts of life. When the sun came up this morning — a new dawn was it not? — it meant nothing to pretend that we have passed from servitude into liberty. It is the emptiest campaign slogan, the self-satisfied bluster of a fluent intellectual dwarf. It is a victory but a victory from which it is going to take an age to recover.


#76 MSheridan

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 04:13 PM

Also from The Times:

Will parliament try to foil Brexit?
by Matthew Parris (a former Conservative MP)

Excerpt:

Quote

The Times has estimated that about 160 of the 650 MPs elected last year want Britain to leave the EU. The overwhelming majority of Westminster MPs believes that leaving would be a mistake. Many believe it would be a very grave mistake. Not a few believe it would be calamitous.

But parliament did vote to hold a referendum on the question — and, by implication, to respect its result. This is clear. What can never be known is how many of those parliamentarians thought it seriously likely the plebiscite would result in an instruction to leave the EU. I certainly didn’t.

Well I was wrong. We know now. And in due course, as Britain’s exit proceeds, there will be crucial Commons votes. What are Remain Tory MPs to do? Break faith with the referendum they voted for, in many cases too lightly? How dare they. Or break faith with what their own judgments and conscience tell them are where the interests of constituents and country lie? How could they?

[snip]

Now picture (assuming the Tories win) the incoming new parliament. Most ways I look at it I cannot find a Brexit majority there. Almost all the Labour Opposition plus the SNP, many of the Ulster MPs, Plaid Cymru, the Green party, and — and this is critical — at least a hundred sullen, tormented and foot-dragging Tory Remainers, will be united on this: they never wanted to leave the EU, and fear it could prove disastrous. It’s possible the “Brexit government” of Mr Farage’s imagination could be propped up by a new phalanx of Ukip MPs — but for many Tory MPs this really would be the last straw.

And so I return to the questions we left hanging: how could such MPs vote against their consciences? Yet how dare they defy today’s referendum result?


#77 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 05:13 PM

View PostBeelzebuddy, on 24 June 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

Cheaper vacations in Britain?

You wouldn't enjoy them now. After a day or two of our glum faces you'd flee back over the sea.
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

Only Satan can rebuke sin. The righteous don't know enough.

God is not dead. He was merely voted out of office.

You can do anything with anybody if you just save them the trouble of thinking.

#78 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 05:23 PM

View PostMSheridan, on 24 June 2016 - 01:34 PM, said:

Brexit: Scotland, Northern Ireland move toward independence votes

And yes, Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness (and member of the Sinn Féin party) has now called for a border poll on a united Ireland.

A non-Like Like.
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

Only Satan can rebuke sin. The righteous don't know enough.

God is not dead. He was merely voted out of office.

You can do anything with anybody if you just save them the trouble of thinking.

#79 JackD

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 07:03 PM

How likely would a Northern Ireland vote for unification with the south be? I thought the Brit sympathizing "Prods" were the majority there.

#80 AnBr

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Posted 24 June 2016 - 09:20 PM

I keep seeing parallels between this and the knuckle draggers here and fiscal fantasy nonsense with shutting down the government and risking defaulting. Not necessarily in severity, but in kind. They don't understand something so it has to be the sole reason for their discontent. "Shut 'er down!" The sad thing is that such people are so easily manipulated... for a while.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937





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