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More People Dying on Mt. Everest


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#1 LFC

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 01:50 PM

Mt. Everest has become a case of too many inexperienced people following too many half-assed guides, resulting in multiple deaths of people who simply aren't at a level where they can be expected to consistently handle themselves, especially if things get tough.

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Hiking officials and climbing veterans say the deaths raise questions about the preparations and safety standards of some climbing operators, with cut-price local companies competing for business as international outfits scale back operations.

This year's Everest campaign has been hit by high winds on some days when climbers had been counting on the weather 'window' to open to make their summit bids before the monsoon sweeps in next month.

Queues have formed on the final stretch to the summit, which is often secured by a single rope line, leading veterans to complain that slow and inexperienced climbers were holding up others and putting them at undue risk.

"Many climbers without any experience crowd Everest every year, and companies often use poor quality equipment... offering cheap packages to clients who are exposed to security risks," Nepal Mountaineering Association Chief Ang Tshering Sherpa said.

"Climbers with well-managed companies employing experienced guides are safe."

Hiking officials blame the government, which charges $11,000 for each Everest permit, for failing to spend any money on safety measures. The government collected $3.1 million from 289 climbers as permit fees so far this year.

But officials blame inadequate preparation on the part of climbers.

"The deaths were not due to accident or the crowd," Tourism Department official Sudarshan Dhakal said. "Energy loss and altitude sickness mean that they were not well prepared."

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

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#2 Rue Bella

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 02:47 PM

Consenting adults, survival of the fittest.

Next...
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#3 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 02:51 PM

Plus the area is getting trashed.

I can see being first, I can see being among the first 100.

I can't really comprehend spending that amount of money, risk and discomfort to be th 6285 person to reach the summit.
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#4 Rue Bella

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 02:56 PM

It's for those who need to buy another notch for their ego belt. Just like killing the biggest lion, or running for president. Climbing Everest is Yuuuuuuge!
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#5 LFC

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 03:36 PM

View PostProgressive whisperer, on 23 May 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

Plus the area is getting trashed.

The peak is literally becoming a dung heap. BTW, PW's made up number of 6,285 isn't wildly far off. The article said it's been over 4,000.

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“Climbers usually dig holes in the snow for their toilet use and leave the human waste there,” Tshering told the AP, noting that the waste has been “piling up” for years around the four camps, where climbers spend weeks acclimatizing to the high altitude without access to toilets.

The warnings aren’t new. This, for instance, is from a 2012 Washington Post opinion piece by Grayson Schaffer, an editor for Outside magazine:

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Everest even has a sewage problem. When base camp’s outhouse barrels are filled, porters haul them to open pits near Gorak Shep. Meanwhile, above base camp, most climbers straddle small crevasses to relieve themselves. The result: The peak has become a fecal time bomb, and the mess is gradually sliding back toward base camp. In 2012, Swiss climber Ueli Steck told me that he won’t even boil snow for water at Everest’s Camp II, because he thinks the lower boiling temperature at that altitude won’t kill germs.

So, how much waste are we talking about? As much as “26,500 pounds of human excrement” each season, “most of it bagged and carried by native Sherpas to earthen pits near Gorak Shep, a frozen lake bed and village at 16,942 feet,” according to Grinnell College.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#6 Rue Bella

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 04:16 PM

Gross! And with more climbers coupled with climate change melting more snow, the mess is only going to get worse. Instead of climbers dying from freezing and falls, various diseases will begin to take a toll. Instead of 'I climbed Mt Everest' it will be 'I survived Everest'.
What is wrong with these people? ~ PG

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#7 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 04:30 PM

A co-worker into somewhat extreme vacations visited that part of Tibet a couple of years ago - when delays stranded bunches of hikers and would be climbers without food. The military had to airlift some out one small chopper at a time.

NPR interviewed. Sherpa a week or so back. He said the mountain really needed the two year "rest" it has had, but I suspect it really hasn't improved.

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#8 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 04:31 PM

View PostRue Bella, on 23 May 2016 - 04:16 PM, said:

Gross! And with more climbers coupled with climate change melting more snow, the mess is only going to get worse. Instead of climbers dying from freezing and falls, various diseases will begin to take a toll. Instead of 'I climbed Mt Everest' it will be 'I survived Everest'.

Yeah, if Special Forces soldiers can pack it out, Everest climbers can too.

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#9 Practical Girl

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 04:35 PM

View PostRue Bella, on 23 May 2016 - 04:16 PM, said:

Gross! And with more climbers coupled with climate change melting more snow, the mess is only going to get worse. Instead of climbers dying from freezing and falls, various diseases will begin to take a toll. Instead of 'I climbed Mt Everest' it will be 'I survived Everest'.

Truly gross. Rich people literally crapping on that which they profess to love. They're changing the environment. Just ask them how..OTOH, maybe a whole lotta fertilization to help grow the garden as GW kills the environment, too?
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#10 MSheridan

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 04:57 PM

I've never climbed anything really serious. I have gone up Mt. Whitney, which is the highest peak in the lower 48 at slightly over 14000 feet. I packed out my own waste, but my hiking partner did not. She was too grossed out by the idea and very few hikers there appeared to be doing so. Interestingly, there are a number of lakes just a little further down around Whitney that are surrounded by surprisingly green and lush vegetation for that altitude. Trees, reeds, grass, everything. After a long day of hiking on the way to the Whitney base camp I thought it'd be refreshing to take a dip in such a beautiful setting, so I waded into one and immediately waded right back out. The bottom was FAR too soft and silty to be natural for that elevation. Going just a little further up the trail we crossed over one of the inlet streams. The bottom was coated with green algal streamers, confirming my suspicions about the source of the fecundity of the vegetation and the softness of the bottom.

#11 golden_valley

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Posted 23 May 2016 - 05:37 PM

View PostLFC, on 23 May 2016 - 03:36 PM, said:

The peak is literally becoming a dung heap. BTW, PW's made up number of 6,285 isn't wildly far off. The article said it's been over 4,000.

A friend of mine went to Nepal, just to the base camp not to climb, but just to see. She said her lasting memory of the trip was the horrible (lack of) sanitation.

#12 Rue Bella

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 07:49 AM

https://www.washingt...-mount-everest/
The extraordinary cost of retrieving dead bodies from Mount Everest
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#13 Traveler

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Posted 28 May 2016 - 01:31 PM

They leave most of them up there. There is a valley between Everest and Khumbu peak to the north (~26,000 feet) that is called rainbow valley. Because of the different colors of the parkas on all the dead people that ended up there after falling off the northwest face. Like dozens. Guides ask folks to wear purple to complete the palette.

FWIW I went to Everest base by myself back in December 1973. It was totally pristine compared to now. I was the only one there. As colld as anything I had ever experienced before. I climbed Kala Pattar (18,200) through waist deep snow, falling through every third step. It was exhausting, but the view was worth it. I really dont want to go back and see all the garbage and crowds. I was lucky.
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#14 LFC

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 01:17 PM

Another climbing season on Mt. Everest, a bunch more deaths. Too many people who are too ill prepared to be up there. Bold is mine.

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Nepali sherpas have found four climbers dead in their tents on Mount Everest, officials said on Wednesday, taking the death toll on the world's highest mountain to 10 in the past month.

The climbers were found overnight in two tents at Camp Four, at 8,000 meters (26,246 feet), Mingma Sherpa of the Seven Summit Treks group, to which the sherpas belonged, said.

The identities of the four remained unknown as none of the expeditions on the mountain reported any of their members missing and the head of the Nepal Mountaineering Association said they may have been climbing on their own.

"It is possible that some individual climbers obtained permits and were climbing without much support due to the cost factor," said Ang Tshering Sherpa.

"It was windy and very cold in the mountain yesterday (Tuesday). It appears they died due to suffocation as they must have been using a stove to keep warm inside the tent.”

The Himalayan Times reported that two of the dead were foreigners, but did not give their nationalities.

"It is most likely they died from carbon monoxide poisoning by using their stoves in the tent without proper ventilation," U.S. climber Alan Arnette, who blogs on Everest, said in a post.

The sherpas who discovered the bodies were on their way to retrieve the body of Vladimir Strba of Slovakia who died near the 8,850 meter (29,035 feet) summit over the weekend.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#15 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 01:24 PM

I don't get the point. Being one of the first five or ten people, I get that. Being the 4000th or 5000th? At great risk, and turning the mountain and it's surroundings into a garbage dump in the process?

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#16 LFC

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 01:46 PM

View PostProgressive whisperer, on 24 May 2017 - 01:24 PM, said:

I don't get the point. Being one of the first five or ten people, I get that. Being the 4000th or 5000th? At great risk, and turning the mountain and it's surroundings into a garbage dump in the process?

I get the first part. As a rock climber I did many routes that had been previously climbed by thousands but that didn't diminish my enjoyment of the technical and physical challenges of the ascent or the staggering views on some of them. I can easily see people climbing peaks that have been scaled by tens of thousands of people for those reasons.

The latter part I'm with you on 110%. When I climbed I left behind some chalk marks that would disappear with a good rain. Most climbers on most mountains leave behind few marks of their passage. Going on a climb that is guaranteed to leave behind yet more trash and feces among piles of existing trash and feces on what should be a pristine landscape? It's kind of tough to make a compelling case that you're there for the love of the outdoors.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#17 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 03:20 PM

Sure, but I'm pretty certain your climbing spots didn't have the death rate Everest has. Partly because you probably made certain you were ready for anyplace you climbed, or could backtrack if you misjudged.

I could understand someone taking this as a pinochle of their mountain climbing experience after tackling other major peaks around the world. From what I've read, this isn't how it works. Sure, people train for it, but many are not all about mountain climbing at every opportunity. This is some kind of a goal, certainly, but many of them have to be sheparded so much that it's clear they aren't top-form climbers.

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#18 LFC

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 05:25 PM

View PostProgressive whisperer, on 24 May 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

I could understand someone taking this as a pinochle of their mountain climbing experience after tackling other major peaks around the world. From what I've read, this isn't how it works. Sure, people train for it, but many are not all about mountain climbing at every opportunity. This is some kind of a goal, certainly, but many of them have to be sheparded so much that it's clear they aren't top-form climbers.

I've come to understand that as well. If the conditions are decent and the weather holds, good guides and Sherpas can drag a lot of people who have enough physical strength and stamina up that hill. The problem always arises when things turn nasty, as they do so often in the high peaks, and they don't have the climbing skills required to handle it and so endanger themselves. This also poses a danger to the guides (who at least accepted the risk) but worse it can pose a risk to other climbers if they do something wrong. One small rock plummeting hundreds of feet downward can kill somebody in the blink of an eye. If you haven't climbed multiple peaks over 14,000 then you probably don't belong on Everest.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#19 Rue Bella

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 06:17 PM

If you want to book an Everest ascent, check it out. It costs $65,000. It almost reads like almost any ol' tour description.

https://www.alpineas...price-schedule/


Quote

Price Includes
•Two nights accommodations in Kathmandu before and one night after the expedition.
•All food and lodging during the trek and climb. No expense is spared in providing high quality food from the USA and Nepal. If you have particular dietary requirements, please give us specific details and we will accommodate your needs!
•Unlimited access to medical doctor in Base Camp
•All transportation in Nepal, including round-trip flights from Kathmandu to Lukla/Syangboche.
•All group equipment needed to reach base camp and climb the mountain: cooking gear, fuel, stoves, ropes, all forms of rock and ice protection, radio communications, oxygen, medical supplies, etc.
•Sherpa, porters, liaison officer, camp staff and guides.
•Wi-fi available – fees to apply
•All administration fees owed to Nepal, including climbing permit.

Price Does Not Include
•$25 Wire Transfer Fee (If Applicable)
•International round-trip airfare (USA-Nepal-USA).
•Meals in Kathmandu and hotels after the climb (once the climber has left the mountain).
•Personal gear, clothing and sleeping equipment (see gear list).
•Insurance. A comprehensive medical insurance policy is required to embark on this expedition.
•Trip cancellation insurance. This is highly recommended and can be purchased through Alpine Ascents.
•Comprehensive medical exam. A physician signed Medical Release Form is required.
•Alcoholic beverages and bottled drinks.
•All expenses incurred in the event of early departure ( evac fees, transport, extra hotel nights, etc).
•Personal Items.
•Charges incurred as a result of delays beyond the control of Alpine Ascents International.
•Personal communication (phone, fax, e-mail) between Nepal and home country.
•A Medical Evacuation Insurance Policy is mandatory. Available through Alpine Ascents. (Included in our standard Trip Cancellation Policy.)

If there are more people climbing the mountain, and willing to pay so much, makes one wonder how many guides and sherpas are not as qualified/experienced as they used to be. That's a lot of money for that part of the world. Mighty tempting to want that sort of work for better pay - assuming they get better pay for life threatening work.
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#20 baw1064

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 06:54 PM

That's one way to deal with the 1%
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