


Minimum Wage Thread
#21
Posted 27 May 2016 - 12:00 PM
— Fran Lebowitz
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
— Carl Sagan
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
#22
Posted 27 May 2016 - 12:28 PM
Rich T Bikkies, on 27 May 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:
How many burgers can the 1% consume?
It is someone else's responsibility to provide jobs, without collecting any fees or taxes. If the company fails for lack of consumers, that's the consumer's fault too.
GOP delenda est.
Resist!
#23
Posted 27 May 2016 - 12:50 PM
---Julia Child
--- On September 17, 1787, as Benjamin Franklin was leaving the deliberations of the Constitutional Convention, at Independence Hall, in Philadelphia, a woman called out to him, saying, “Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?”
“A republic,” Franklin said, “if you can keep it.”
--- LFC, on Gorsuch ruling: "Awesome. A Christianist who swore an oath to uphold the laws of the nation and bore false witness when he did it"
--- "Write hard and clear about what hurts"
Ernest Hemingway
#24
Posted 27 May 2016 - 02:10 PM
Practical Girl, on 27 May 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:
I am not sure we can avoid it. Some of this is simple greed with little forethought, but some of this is inevitable as we advance into the future. It is what is the basis of the 'post work society'. I don't see how we can have a stable society without some kind of GMI. I don't know when we might reach a critical mass of people without work, but there will be only about three outcomes from it, two of them terrible and one that will not sit well with many.
I have been thinking about this for some time and have never come up with any good solutions. What keeps coming back to me starts smelling of some form of socialism, which my mind keeps wanting to reject. A economy or society cannot last very long if too many have no means of support. So what is the solution if most industries are automated with no consumers? The government owning the means of production? If not, the owners of said facilities will not provide their wares gratis. They might not have have a choice but to pay for a GMI for these people. I'm sure that they will find all other solutions even more distasteful.
— Fran Lebowitz
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
— Carl Sagan
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
#25
Posted 27 May 2016 - 02:26 PM
---Julia Child
--- On September 17, 1787, as Benjamin Franklin was leaving the deliberations of the Constitutional Convention, at Independence Hall, in Philadelphia, a woman called out to him, saying, “Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?”
“A republic,” Franklin said, “if you can keep it.”
--- LFC, on Gorsuch ruling: "Awesome. A Christianist who swore an oath to uphold the laws of the nation and bore false witness when he did it"
--- "Write hard and clear about what hurts"
Ernest Hemingway
#26
Posted 27 May 2016 - 05:09 PM
— Fran Lebowitz
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
— Carl Sagan
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
#27
Posted 31 May 2016 - 09:30 PM
This strikes me a bit like Porter has a preformed conclusion and is looking for conformation of his belief.
— Fran Lebowitz
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
— Carl Sagan
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
#28
Posted 06 June 2016 - 06:59 PM
— Fran Lebowitz
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
— Carl Sagan
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
#29
Posted 09 June 2016 - 07:48 AM
Quote
Those production workers, roughly 6 million, represent about half of all manufacturing workers. They include metal workers, assemblers and machinists, but not managers or software developers.
It used to be that these blue-collar jobs provided a "ladder to the middle class" for workers without college degrees, said Jacobs, the chair of Berkeley's Center for Labor Research and Education. The findings show, Jacobs said that “with manufacturing jobs, production jobs, that’s really no longer true. The new production jobs are less likely to be union and more likely to be low wages.”
Many of the workers who draw supplementary government assistance work full time, in jobs that, like Wade's, are staffed through temping agencies. Nearly half the families of production workers who logged at least 35 hours a week, 45 weeks a year, and who were employed through staffing agencies, received government welfare of some kind, the report found.

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."
"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer
""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer
#30
Posted 09 June 2016 - 08:38 AM
LFC, on 09 June 2016 - 07:48 AM, said:

"Class warfare", and guess which class has been fighting and winning most?
GOP delenda est.
Resist!
#31
Posted 09 June 2016 - 10:44 AM
— Fran Lebowitz
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
— Carl Sagan
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
#32
Posted 15 June 2016 - 11:06 PM
— Fran Lebowitz
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
— Carl Sagan
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
#33
Posted 11 July 2016 - 07:24 PM
— Fran Lebowitz
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
— Carl Sagan
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
#34
Posted 27 July 2016 - 01:30 PM
Highest-paid CEOs run worst-performing companies, research finds
— Fran Lebowitz
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
— Carl Sagan
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
#35
Posted 27 July 2016 - 01:32 PM
Quote
The idea is called the permanent income hypothesis (PIH). Friedman first put it on paper in 1957, and it still holds enormous sway in the econ profession. The PIH says that people’s consumption doesn’t depend on how much they earn today, but on how much they expect to earn over their lifetime. If a one-time windfall of money drops into your lap, says Friedman’s theory, you won’t rush out and spend it all -- you’ll stick it in the bank, because you know the episode won’t be repeated. But if you get a raise, you might start spending more every month, because the raise was a signal that your earning power has increased for the long term.
— Fran Lebowitz
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
— Carl Sagan
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
#36
Posted 10 August 2016 - 10:07 PM
— Fran Lebowitz
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
— Carl Sagan
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
#37
Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:34 AM
Quote
The study also found that, relative to historical trends, the rate at which low-wage workers affected by the increase stayed employed rose by about three percentage points. For workers in the control group, it was up four points. Thus, absent the minimum-wage increase, there’d arguably be one percentage point more affected workers employed in Seattle.
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire
#38
Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:57 AM
Quote
Minimum-wage opponents who claim that increases will cripple local economies, either overall or even in their low-wage sectors, thus get no help from the Seattle results.
Fascinating. Opponents of the MW increase seem to ignore that we are an economy 70% reliant on consumer spending. More money in the pocket allows for more spending. I'll be interested in findings that examine beyond the effect on employers/employees (more hours, businesses not failing) into whether or not this MW raise caused an uptick in local economic spending.
EDIT: Another consideration that I think opponents miss is where people live vs where they work. Work in Seattle, but live in a suburb/bedroom community (where they shop/eat/get gas/buy cars etc, so it's not unreasonable to expect that those higher wages will be spent in less expensive outlying communities.
---Julia Child
--- On September 17, 1787, as Benjamin Franklin was leaving the deliberations of the Constitutional Convention, at Independence Hall, in Philadelphia, a woman called out to him, saying, “Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?”
“A republic,” Franklin said, “if you can keep it.”
--- LFC, on Gorsuch ruling: "Awesome. A Christianist who swore an oath to uphold the laws of the nation and bore false witness when he did it"
--- "Write hard and clear about what hurts"
Ernest Hemingway
#39
Posted 11 August 2016 - 10:50 AM
Practical Girl, on 11 August 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:
They've studiously doing this (perhaps ideologically is a better word) since Tinkle Down Economics was introduced under Reagan.
"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."
"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer
""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer
#40
Posted 11 August 2016 - 11:44 AM
AnBr, on 10 August 2016 - 10:07 PM, said:
If you don't have time for the whole thing, watch for a few minutes from 7:45. Here is an amazing description of what's going on.
Quote
"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."
"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer
""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer
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