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Minimum Wage Thread

Started By AnBr, May 17 2016 01:49 PM

940 replies to this topic

#1 AnBr

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 01:49 PM

in responding to this post Traveler responded

View PostTraveler, on 16 May 2016 - 01:22 PM, said:

Damn, that was a great article. The more I read from Hanauer, the more I appreciate his ethos. This should go into the MW thread as well.

When looking for the more recent MW thread I found several short threads touching on specific events.

New Overtime Pay Law Set To Go Into Effect
Raise Wages, Kill Jobs?
California Moving Towards $15/hr Minimum Wage
It’s Been a Very Good Week for Seattle’s Minimum Wage
When Harry Truman Nearly Doubled the Minimum Wage
Walmart CEO Admits Wage Increase Is Working
AEI Economist Mark Perry Proves Low Minimum Wage Kills Jobs
Beyond the Minimum Wage: What’s Really Keeping Hourly Workers in Poverty?

or on GMI:
Guaranteed Basic Income
Guaranteed Minimum Income - How Might It Work?
Dutch city of Utrecht to experiment with a universal, unconditional 'basic income'

Also related is the post-work society:
Automation may mean a post-work society but we shouldn't be afraid
Stephen Hawking on Robots and Post-Work Society

I know that some here dislike the "all things" threads, but this topic that keeps coming up over and over again and the related topic of guaranteed minimum income. Each time it seems we barely scratch the surface, getting distracted by a single event, such as CA raising its minimum wage. There is a broader theme with this that is at the core of what many of us here see as essential for a thriving, prosperous nation. I think this will only become more important as more and more jobs that can pay a living wage disappear. Whether we actually come into the post-work society or not we will experience more automation and inevitably more will have to fall back on low paying jobs.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan

Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe

“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#2 Traveler

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Posted 17 May 2016 - 02:15 PM

Yeah, I must say I hate thread proliferation. (Much prefer hijacking one than reading a bunch of redundant ones. it always returns eventually.) Threads that repeat other previous ones like that list shows make it tough to figure out where to post if a new article comes up. There is a lot of good stuff in all of those threads. Great article recently in BB that I may not have posted for this reason. So go for it Andy.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#3 MSheridan

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 12:55 PM

This story from yesterday looks as if it belongs here and may prove interesting:

Cleveland's $15 minimum wage proposal ignites epic battle

Excerpt:

Quote

Compelled by a petition drive led by the Service Employees International Union, Cleveland City Council introduced legislation Monday night that would set the city minimum wage at $15 an hour beginning in January. Cleveland currently does not have a minimum wage but the state's minimum wage is $8.10. Council's Workforce and Community Benefits Committee will hold the first hearing on the legislation today at 1:30 p.m.

Council has to vote on the legislation within 90 days, per the city's charter. Council can pass the legislation as is, amend it, or reject it. If council rejects or amends the legislation, the petitioners can still put the original issue before Cleveland voters in November.

It's highly unlikely the legislation stays intact. As a result, it's a good bet SEIU will go to the ballot to preserve the legislation. This makes the next five and half months messy. Let's unpack the dynamics.

Big names, big personalities

The city's two biggest leaders – Jackson and Council President Kevin Kelley – are against the legislation and are plotting to defeat it.

Both say they support a minimum-wage increase, but only one that is instituted statewide to keep the city from being at a competitive disadvantage. Jackson, Kelley and others argue that a Cleveland-only wage hike – which would become the steepest in the country, according to a recent Politifact analysis -- will drive businesses and low-wage jobs to neighboring cities.

Business owners are pledging money for a campaign to fight the proposal.

#4 AnBr

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 02:43 PM

Sounds like something that Kasich would be happy to get the state to interfere with.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan

Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe

“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#5 AnBr

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 05:12 PM

Not minimum wage, but fair wage. Ryan is trying to slam Obama's overtime rule. Nick Hanauer's take: "Trickle-downers hate anything which helps put more money in the pockets of working Americans. Remember, a key aspect of trickle down is 'wage suppression for the 99%.'"

http://thehill.com/r...solute-disaster
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan

Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe

“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#6 Traveler

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 05:19 PM

The funny thing about this is that it actually makes winners of everyone. Including those who sell more to now less impoverished masses. The goddamn money comes right back. Has nobody in POGerland ever heard of this concept?
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#7 AnBr

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 05:23 PM

View PostTraveler, on 18 May 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:

The funny thing about this is that it actually makes winners of everyone. Including those who sell more to now less impoverished masses. The goddamn money comes right back. Has nobody in POGerland ever heard of this concept?

You mean the Henry Ford lesson?
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan

Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe

“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#8 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 07:17 PM

View PostTraveler, on 18 May 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:

The funny thing about this is that it actually makes winners of everyone. Including those who sell more to now less impoverished masses. The goddamn money comes right back. Has nobody in POGerland ever heard of this concept?

The new model oligarch sees any dollar not in their grubby fist as a dollar they lost, period.

And anyone who complains us like a Nazi, with the .01% casting themselves as the Jews.

Trump delenda est.
GOP delenda est.
Resist!

#9 golden_valley

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Posted 18 May 2016 - 07:31 PM

More racing to the bottom... Why those employees should be glad to have a job! Scrooge couldn't behave more badly.

#10 LFC

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 09:30 AM

View PostTraveler, on 18 May 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:

The funny thing about this is that it actually makes winners of everyone. Including those who sell more to now less impoverished masses. The goddamn money comes right back. Has nobody in POGerland ever heard of this concept?

The people pushing for this are the same ones that demand moronic short-term moves to increase share prices at the expense of a company's long-term performance. Do you really imagine they could ever grasp the benefit of anything beyond a year or two out?
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#11 LFC

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 09:35 AM

View PostAnBr, on 18 May 2016 - 05:12 PM, said:

Not minimum wage, but fair wage. Ryan is trying to slam Obama's overtime rule. Nick Hanauer's take: "Trickle-downers hate anything which helps put more money in the pockets of working Americans. Remember, a key aspect of trickle down is 'wage suppression for the 99%.'"

http://thehill.com/r...solute-disaster

I love this piece of utter nonsense. They have to track their hours and that will be some kind of major impact to productivity? Talk about grasping at straws.

Quote

House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) called the rule “misguided meddling in the economy."

"The rule will force employers to waste time and resources logging hours,” he said in a statement. “It will also require workers to fit their lives into a mold that bureaucrats impose, not what works best for them."

That last sentence is a real beaut. Reminds me of a company I worked for at one time. One of my coworkers made the crack, "We have flexible hours. You can work any 60 hours a week you want to."
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#12 Traveler

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 11:30 AM

Yeah, that was pathetic. If you are a line worker being paid for 40 and working more, than the time clock is no different. Now for salaried folks, that is different. There you have to keep up billable hours, and you cannot bill for all the time at the office. Which is why many end up working longer hours. There it's time sheets, which are a chore. I am doing that now, big time. But IIRC, those workers are not the subject of this bill.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#13 AnBr

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Posted 19 May 2016 - 06:34 PM

Posted Image
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan

Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe

“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#14 AnBr

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 11:32 AM

60,000 Chinese Factory Workers Replaced By Robots - one more step to the post work society.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan

Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe

“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#15 AnBr

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 11:48 AM

http://www.real-time...urgers-and-lies
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan

Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe

“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#16 LFC

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 03:55 PM

View PostAnBr, on 26 May 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

60,000 Chinese Factory Workers Replaced By Robot - one more step to the post work society.

It has begun...
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#17 AnBr

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 11:35 AM

Blackmail.

Former McDonald's USA CEO: $35K Robots Cheaper Than Hiring at $15 Per Hour
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan

Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe

“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#18 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 11:41 AM

In the fantabulosa free-market America of neocon dreams, whose responsibility is it to provide jobs for people who have been replaced by robots or Chinese or Indians paid peanuts? Of course that's less fun than blaming the "takers": those who have not tried at all hard to get the jobs that no longer even exist.
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

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God is not dead. He was merely voted out of office.

You can do anything with anybody if you just save them the trouble of thinking.

#19 MSheridan

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 11:49 AM

And they'll have no problem with nonstandard orders? So my buddy who cannot abide tomatoes will be able to order and receive his burgers without them with no trouble?

Besides, labor costs are the least of worries for McDonalds. That chain is one of the most profitable companies in the business, with a profit margin about 20%. It's not particularly likely it would be any less profitable if people had more folding green in their pocket.

#20 AnBr

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 11:55 AM

Hey, they might be able to occasionally buy a big mac themselves with a little more money. Where does this idiot think their customers will come from?
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan

Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe

“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
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