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The Trump Phenomenon


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#61 Bact PhD

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 09:06 PM

View PostBanty, on 14 March 2016 - 08:53 PM, said:

Interesting on this question of incitement to riot:

http://www.pbs.org/w...otected-speech/
Yup. the bar is incredibly high when it comes to activities that butt up on "maybe, possibly, infringing on the right to Free Speech." I mean, we still permit KKK rallies (which, the last I heard, drew more protesters than participants)! Westboro Baptist "Church" can picket at military funerals!
Which is why Trump's bluster about libel suits is pure nonsense -- again, the bar is insanely high
Politics these days is show business. Elections are Dancing with the Stars with consequences. ~Rue Bella

(About fame) Living for likes, shares and follows is a form of validation. The question is whether it is also the source of our self esteem. If it is, we’re screwed. And, culturally, it seems as if it’s become more and more our shared value. ... Meringue is no longer a sweet and pretty topping but the body itself. ~Charles Perez

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Competent people go in one of a few directions. But incompetence is infinite. ~David Brooks, NY Times

#62 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 09:30 PM

On the other hand, telling the Trupes at a rally to beat up protesters and he'll cover the legal expenses? Different story.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#63 AnBr

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Posted 14 March 2016 - 11:44 PM


“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#64 AnBr

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 12:06 AM

This comes via Ezra Klein how said "This is the clearest, most comprehensive take on the escalating violence at Trump's rallies that I've read."

http://www.vox.com/2...6/trump-violent
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#65 AnBr

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 12:39 AM

Quote

Trump supporter says "Go to Auschwitz. Go to fucking Auschwitz.""Go to Auschwitz. Go to fucking Auschwitz."

https://www.facebook...08278839211034/
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#66 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 04:30 AM

Thanks, folks. So I'm nearly right about North Carolina. The complexity of the situation is encouraging. Not a monolithic tribal hellhole.
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

Only Satan can rebuke sin. The righteous don't know enough.

God is not dead. He was merely voted out of office.

You can do anything with anybody if you just save them the trouble of thinking.

#67 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 04:33 AM

View PostBact PhD, on 14 March 2016 - 08:46 PM, said:

[1] A couple of her college compatriots were silent protesters at the recent NC Trump rally and got an eyeful.

An eyeful? Short of a black eye, I hope. But, horribile dictu, things have moved on even now.
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

Only Satan can rebuke sin. The righteous don't know enough.

God is not dead. He was merely voted out of office.

You can do anything with anybody if you just save them the trouble of thinking.

#68 jdd_stl1

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 09:22 AM

A ringing endorsement from Ben Carson
http://talkingpoints...mp-only-4-years

Quote

"The way I look at it, even if Donald Trump turns out not to be such a great president — which I don't think is the case, I think he's going to surround himself with really good people — but even if he didn't, we're only looking at four years, as opposed to multiple generations and perhaps the loss of the American dream forever," Carson said.

Quote

"I have to look at what is practical. I didn't see a path for Kasich, who I like, or for Rubio, who I like. As far as Cruz is concerned, I don't think he's going to be able to draw independents and Democrats unless he has some kind of miraculous change," he continued. "Is there another scenario that I would have preferred? Yes, but that scenario isn't available."

Shorter version: "They are all sucky choices. But who cares, what can possibly happen in four years."
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#69 J-CA

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 10:47 AM

Is this pretty much Carson admitting that Trump offered him a job in return for an endorsement?
Carson has to be the biggest crook of the lot when it comes to straight-up grifting and self-interest.
I am the burrito until someone hands me to a philosopher.

#70 Banty

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 10:51 AM

View PostRich T Bikkies, on 15 March 2016 - 04:30 AM, said:

Thanks, folks. So I'm nearly right about North Carolina. The complexity of the situation is encouraging. Not a monolithic tribal hellhole.

No such thing. I was born and raised in Texas, and not in the People's Republic of Austin. There are prevailing opinions, but they ebb and flow. And there's always a range of people everywhere.
"It can happen here. It is happening here. No election has been more important in my lifetime." - Andrew Sullivan, 7/21/2016
It did happen here. - Banty 11/9/2016

#71 Banty

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 10:53 AM

More on the incitement to riot thing.

Trump is skating the edges of it. Frankly I'd love to see it happen - let him cross the line and let's see him arrested. That would be a society working.

http://www.thedailyb...ing-a-riot.html
"It can happen here. It is happening here. No election has been more important in my lifetime." - Andrew Sullivan, 7/21/2016
It did happen here. - Banty 11/9/2016

#72 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 12:04 PM

A thought: Trump's "Little Marco" jibe was, it now appears, a killer. The lowest type of cheap shot, and clearly revealing the nasty mind behind it. But loads of pundits are taking it up and repeating it; that's what makes it a killer. Doesn't say a whole lot for the state of the souls of the pundits, but that's not the point. Trump probably didn't consciously calculate its effect, but he's such a nasty piece of work his subconscious did the whole biz.

Rubio had better bloody well win Florida if he doesn't want to crash and burn.

Hillary had better bloody well win the White House if America doesn't want to crash and burn.

Rubio appears to have one or two tenuous connections to the human race. Cruz does not. I wish Trump had taken out Cruz instead. However, Trump, Rubio or Cruz getting the nomination is probably enough to hand HRC 50 states.

(I rather like Bernie, and certainly see the point of him, just as I do Jeremy Corbyn. But I don't really "feel the Bern").
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

Only Satan can rebuke sin. The righteous don't know enough.

God is not dead. He was merely voted out of office.

You can do anything with anybody if you just save them the trouble of thinking.

#73 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 12:13 PM

View PostRich T Bikkies, on 15 March 2016 - 12:04 PM, said:

Doesn't say a whole lot for the state of the souls of the pundits

Objection! Your Honor, this assumes spiritual attributes not in evidence. Assuming that they exist, we require discovery from the mortgagor.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#74 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 12:34 PM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 15 March 2016 - 12:13 PM, said:

Objection! Your Honor, this assumes spiritual attributes not in evidence. Assuming that they exist, we require discovery from the mortgagor.

That's just the way we God-botherers talk. All I meant was that most of the pundits are a pretty low form of life too.

My favourite quote about “souls” is in The Club of Queer Trades, a book of short stories by GK Chesterton. A judge on the bench says to a witness on the stand: “Get yourself another soul; that thing you've got isn't fit for a dog!”.
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

Only Satan can rebuke sin. The righteous don't know enough.

God is not dead. He was merely voted out of office.

You can do anything with anybody if you just save them the trouble of thinking.

#75 AnBr

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 12:36 PM

View PostBanty, on 15 March 2016 - 10:51 AM, said:

No such thing. I was born and raised in Texas, and not in the People's Republic of Austin. There are prevailing opinions, but they ebb and flow. And there's always a range of people everywhere.

And to add that one of the greatest champion of the Civil Rights Act was a Texan, even if a half century ago.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#76 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 12:38 PM

View PostAnBr, on 15 March 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

And to add that one of the greatest champion of the Civil Rights Act was a Texan, even if a half century ago.

All the way with LBJ?
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

Only Satan can rebuke sin. The righteous don't know enough.

God is not dead. He was merely voted out of office.

You can do anything with anybody if you just save them the trouble of thinking.

#77 AnBr

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 12:44 PM

Of course I was referring to LBJ. Without him the Civil Rights Act would have never passed. He also pushed for passage of the Voting Rights Act immediately after because he felt that the Civil Rights Act was meaningless without the power of the vote.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#78 Banty

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 01:05 PM

View PostRich T Bikkies, on 15 March 2016 - 12:04 PM, said:

A thought: Trump's "Little Marco" jibe was, it now appears, a killer. The lowest type of cheap shot, and clearly revealing the nasty mind behind it. But loads of pundits are taking it up and repeating it; that's what makes it a killer. Doesn't say a whole lot for the state of the souls of the pundits, but that's not the point. Trump probably didn't consciously calculate its effect, but he's such a nasty piece of work his subconscious did the whole biz.

Rubio had better bloody well win Florida if he doesn't want to crash and burn.

Hillary had better bloody well win the White House if America doesn't want to crash and burn.

Rubio appears to have one or two tenuous connections to the human race. Cruz does not. I wish Trump had taken out Cruz instead. However, Trump, Rubio or Cruz getting the nomination is probably enough to hand HRC 50 states.

(I rather like Bernie, and certainly see the point of him, just as I do Jeremy Corbyn. But I don't really "feel the Bern").

Cruz, I'm afraid, is too big for Trump to take out. And no obvious little flaws that he can make fun of, junior high style. (Not that Cruz doesn't have big flaws, it's that none present in that way. Maayybe his face ...)

Rubio has both youth and boyish looks and he isn't that tall. Those things go against his presence. He'd have to be Kennedy-esque. But he sunk himself with boyhood taunts, and doing that played right to the thing he needed to overcome. And, only pigs, can pig-wrestle.
"It can happen here. It is happening here. No election has been more important in my lifetime." - Andrew Sullivan, 7/21/2016
It did happen here. - Banty 11/9/2016

#79 MSheridan

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 01:10 PM

I see no reason to even wonder if Rubio will be the Republican candidate in the general. He's done about as little to get himself there as a supposedly serious candidate could do and it's too late for him to do more now. If, as seems probable, Hillary Clinton does lock up the Democratic nomination, then I think she would probably win against Cruz or Trump, the two candidates who currently look strongest.

I very strongly doubt she would win all 50 states, though. Not only are there some states in which the red forces vastly outnumber the blue, but her personal popularity is lower in those states than other Democrats because the Republican hate machine is strongest there and has worked hard to vilify both her and her husband for over two decades. The famous "vast right wing conspiracy" is all too real. She is not universally loved among non-Republicans either, but that is only partly because of this right wing campaign, and I expect that most actual Democrats will vote for her over any Republican (well, maybe not in West Virginia). However, although I think she'd win, I'm not convinced it's an absolute slam dunk. I've gotten skittish about that sort of confident prediction anyway. This election cycle has burned me too on those too often already.

#80 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 01:20 PM

View PostAnBr, on 15 March 2016 - 12:44 PM, said:

Of course I was referring to LBJ. Without him the Civil Rights Act would have never passed.

My favorite cold-blooded SOB of a President since Lincoln. Whenever anyone is going on about the character flaws etc. of a candidate, I ask them to measure their candidate against Johnson. Bastard? OK -- but is s/he a bastard who can make shit happen? (And don't tell me Vietnam -- I lost classmates there. I'm not nominating Johnson for sainthood.)
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO





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