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The Trump Phenomenon


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#4961 baw1064

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 04:08 PM

View Postgolden_valley, on 12 January 2019 - 02:12 PM, said:

Roger Cohen at NYT quotes from some guy who defined the difference between a lie and bullshit.

Sounds like the distinction between immoral and amoral.
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#4962 AnBr

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 06:34 AM

Posted Image
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#4963 Traveler

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 10:02 AM

Surprisingly, soybean futures not so bad.
Posted Image
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#4964 Traveler

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 10:04 AM

View Postbaw1064, on 12 January 2019 - 04:08 PM, said:

Sounds like the distinction between immoral and amoral.
Actually, both. It wasn't BS to keep the translator notes.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#4965 AnBr

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 10:28 AM

Frum: Trump Has Defeated Himself

Quote

Well, that was the shortest, most easily resolved national emergency in U.S. history. Twelve hours ago, the president was preparing to set aside the regular process of law. By 9 p.m. eastern time? Not so much.

Perhaps somebody pointed out that 15-year civil-engineering projects do not look very convincingly like emergency measures. “My house is burning! Time to begin the process of calling for design proposals for a new fire station.”

President Donald Trump is about to discover the reverse side of Richard Neustadt’s famous observation that the most important presidential power is the power to persuade. Trump’s conduct as candidate and president long ago deprived him of any power to persuade anyone not already predisposed to support him. To date, Trump has governed by leveraging his high approval rating within the Republican Party. From the point of view of former Speaker Paul Ryan and Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Trump’s 90 percent approval rating among Republicans mattered a lot more than his 39 percent approval rating among Americans in general.

“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#4966 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 07:30 PM

View PostAnBr, on 14 January 2019 - 10:28 AM, said:


Wait -- Frum writes as though Trump had actually noticed that his position was not commanding. Either this is news that I can't find or our old buddy David is losing contact with reality.
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#4967 LFC

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 03:51 PM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 14 January 2019 - 07:30 PM, said:

Wait -- Frum writes as though Trump had actually noticed that his position was not commanding. Either this is news that I can't find or our old buddy David is losing contact with reality.

"Losing" contact with reality? Mr. "vote for Romney because you can't believe what he says"? David has been adrift for a long time.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#4968 golden_valley

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 03:57 PM

View PostLFC, on 15 January 2019 - 03:51 PM, said:


"Losing" contact with reality? Mr. "vote for Romney because you can't believe what he says"? David has been adrift for a long time.

He just can't quit the ideology and Party that he professed years ago.

#4969 J-CA

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 05:47 PM

View PostTraveler, on 13 January 2019 - 10:02 AM, said:

Surprisingly, soybean futures not so bad.
Posted Image
It ain't the futures, it is the basis.
I am the burrito until someone hands me to a philosopher.

#4970 LFC

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 05:22 PM

More on the emoluments clause issue. The GSA admits it never considered it. It also didn't bother mentioning that they never considered it.

Quote

The General Services Administration ignored “issues under the Constitution’s Emoluments Clauses” when it decided in March 2017 that President Trump’s Washington, D.C. hotel was in full compliance of its lease of Washington’s Old Post Office Building.

The IG investigation focused on whether GSA management followed correct decision-making procedures in addressing whether Trump’s D.C. hotel — located in the Old Post Office Building down the street from the White House — violated the Constitution’s emoluments clause, which prohibits the president from profiting from foreign governments.

The IG writes in the report that “GSA recognized that the President’s business interest in the OPO lease raised issues under the Constitution’s Emoluments Clauses that might cause a breach of the lease; however, GSA decided not to address those issues in connection with the management of the lease.”

The report goes on to call the decision to ignore the emoluments issues “improper because GSA, like all government agencies, has an obligation to uphold and enforce the Constitution.”


And in a truly "WTF?" admission...

Quote

GSA attorneys purportedly told the IG that they chose to “ignore the emoluments issues” for a few reasons. Namely, they claimed that the agency doesn’t handle constitutional issues, and therefore that the emoluments clause was not in the agency’s “purview.” The GSA officials said that there was no formal decision-making process, but that they agreed that the potential emoluments violation was “bigger than GSA.”

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#4971 golden_valley

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 06:20 PM

View PostLFC, on 16 January 2019 - 05:22 PM, said:

More on the emoluments clause issue. The GSA admits it never considered it. It also didn't bother mentioning that they never considered it.




And in a truly "WTF?" admission...

From listening to the ethics dudes who filed suit based on it, my understanding is that the emoluments clause has no enforcement mechanism written into it...no regs on it either...no explanation of who has legal standing to use it to challenge someone, so I'm not surprised the GSA says it has no responsibility for it. This is an example of how Trump's unique behavior puts the US into a "Who'd a thunk it?" "What the hell do we do now?" situation.

#4972 JackD

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 08:05 PM

As to the emoluments clause, we'll find out. Cases are pending.

#4973 baw1064

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 08:13 PM

And another WTF moment:

Quote

Apart from the constitutional issues raised by Trump's stake in the hotel, the building's lease states that no "elected official of the Government ... shall be admitted to share any part of this Lease, or any benefit that may arise therefrom." Trump's attorneys have argued that didn't apply since he signed the lease before he was elected.


“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#4974 baw1064

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 09:17 PM

Maybe I'm inclined to take things too literally, but my view is that in the absence of precedent or a defined enforcement mechanism, then literally any member of Congress, Federal employee, or member of the armed forces has standing. Why? Because they've all sworn to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic...etc. The President receiving emoluments in direct violation of the Constitution clearly constitutes an attack which they are sworn to oppose.
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#4975 LFC

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 11:02 AM

To Trump's Chumps: You think this man is going to bring back jobs. Yes, you are this stupid and gullible.

Quote

President Trump may have ratcheted up his anti-immigration efforts in recent months, but his family companies appear to be using foreign workers at a higher rate than ever before.

The Trump Organization requested and received at least 192 visas for foreign workers in 2018, according to Department of Labor data. That number appears to be the highest for the company going back to at least 2008 and likely much earlier, based on public records.

The nearly two decades’ worth of data were pulled together by the Democratic research group American Bridge and shared with TPM, which then reviewed the raw Labor Department information files.Those visas were almost entirely for the type of low-skilled foreign workers that Trump has claimed drive down American wages. Cooks, servers, housekeepers and farmworkers make up a large chunk of the Trump Organization’s requests, most of them making between $10 and $15 hourly.

In 2018, the various Trump properties received 163 H2B visas for non-agricultural temporary workers and 29 H2A visas for agricultural temporary workers.

The largest number of the Trump Organization’s foreign worker visas in 2018, like in most years, went to his Mar-a-Lago property in Palm Beach, Florida. The “Winter White House” where Trump spends much of his time received 78 temporary foreign worker visas last year for waiters, cooks and maids.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#4976 indy

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 11:13 AM

Giuliani seemed to tacitly admit yesterday that there was collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. Perhaps, as someone pointed out, even if Trump was unwittedly, wittedly, or half-wittedly involved, it's still the biggest story ever. Constitutional definition of treason seems in play.

Just given what I've seen of Trump's style, I'm betting his involvement is wittedly.

#4977 golden_valley

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 11:19 AM

View Postindy, on 17 January 2019 - 11:13 AM, said:


Just given what I've seen of Trump's style, I'm betting his involvement is wittedly.

Or half wittedly...

#4978 AnBr

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 11:50 AM

View Postindy, on 17 January 2019 - 11:13 AM, said:

Giuliani seemed to tacitly admit yesterday that there was collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. Perhaps, as someone pointed out, even if Trump was unwittedly, wittedly, or half-wittedly involved, it's still the biggest story ever. Constitutional definition of treason seems in play.

Just given what I've seen of Trump's style, I'm betting his involvement is wittedly.

As some have pointed out, it cannot be treason if there is no war:

Quote

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

However, I would make the case that we are at war. Putin has declared cyberwar on us and the rest of the West.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#4979 golden_valley

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 12:33 PM

View PostAnBr, on 17 January 2019 - 11:50 AM, said:

As some have pointed out, it cannot be treason if there is no war:



However, I would make the case that we are at war. Putin has declared cyberwar on us and the rest of the West.

I think NATO was fiddling with definitions of cyberterrorism. I don't know if dis- and false information campaigns is part of that.

#4980 Traveler

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 01:02 PM

So long as cthe chumps lap the misinformation up, hard to call it terrorism. Stockholm syndrome?
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire





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