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What’s the Matter with Kansas? It’s an Economic Shit Show, That’s What


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#1 AnBr

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Posted 28 September 2015 - 12:53 PM

http://civicskunkwor...how-thats-what/

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By now, most of you are probably familiar with the budgetary disaster that Kansas Governor Sam Brownback’s massive tax cuts have created in the Sunflower State: Double-digit percent annual budget deficits as far as the eye can see.

“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#2 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 28 September 2015 - 12:59 PM

At least it kept Brownback from running for POTUS?

Maybe that's a bad thing, he could have been laughed out of the running like Walker, and gotten more national attention on the "reality" of GOP economics.
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#3 LFC

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Posted 28 September 2015 - 01:05 PM

Toss in the performance of Republican policies as implemented by Walker and Christie discussed over here and you've got quite the ample evidence that their school of economic "thought" is pure bullshit.

But at least Walker knows how to stimulate the economy, by cutting $250M of funding from the University of Wisconsin and putting the taxpayers on the hook for potentially $400M to give the Bucks a new stadium to play in.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#4 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 28 September 2015 - 01:40 PM

Fortunately for Brownback, Walker et. al. their parishioners in the GOP base don't really care about facts and evidence as long as you pray to Saints Reagan, Laffler and Norquist''s daily.

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#5 Beelzebuddy

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 05:55 PM

http://www.salon.com...on_for_america/

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This weekend brought the hilarious news that the approval rating for Sam Brownback, governor of Kansas and multi-year winner of the award for “Midwestern Republican Politician Who Most Resembles an Undertaker,” has fallen to an amazing low of 18 percent, while 48 percent pronounced themselves “very dissatisfied” with him. Most humiliating of all for Brownback? In this heavily Republican state, Barack Obama is outpolling him by double digits, with 28 percent of Kansas residents pronouncing themselves “satisfied” or “very satisfied” with the president’s job performance.

One cannot overstate just how badly Brownback and his pet Republican far-right legislature have wrecked Kansas in just a few years. The governor came into office in early 2011 promising to turn the state into a “real live experiment” for trickle-down economics that involved cutting tax rates to goose economic growth, which would fill the state’s coffers with so much revenue that Kansans would be literally swimming through seas of cash to get to Jayhawks basketball games. In other words, the usual supply-side plans that conservatives cling to no matter how many times they have crashed and burned at the national level.

Fear Sells!

Cui bono?

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#6 LFC

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 10:02 AM

Another data point for the failure Tinkle Down Economics.

I actually believe in Trickle Down Economics ... when marginal tax rates are somewhere closer to maybe 75%. The problem with Republicans is that they suffer from economic ideology so they can't grasp that just because some is good it doesn't follow that more is better. Economics to them is just another form of religious zealotry where the more devoutly you adhere to the gospels, the better things simply must get. It's frightening that the entire right-wing party is now entirely driven by belief over reality on virtually every topic.

I will give them props for being able to dig up enough votes (maybe) to keep the U.S. from defaulting on its debt, but it's taking a lame duck Speaker to even have a remote shot at getting it done. The fact that it's even an issue is, of course, incredibly damning ... yet again.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#7 indy

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 10:38 AM

I'd feel a little sorry for Kansas but it's a case of being fooled twice. I remember like the third day of derivatives class discussing pricing theory and the model's assumption that people act will act in their rational self-interest and thinking wow, this is such bullshit, I don't care how many formulas you put in the board. It applies to voters too. It's easy to fool people into believing their rational self-interest is whatever you tell them it is.

#8 AnBr

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 11:47 AM

View PostLFC, on 28 October 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

I actually believe in Trickle Down Economics ... when marginal tax rates are somewhere closer to maybe 75%.

I believe in more of trickle up than tinkle on. Demand is a more dominate factor. Supply only matters in relation to demand. You could be sitting on a mountain of gold, but if there is no demand, you might as well be sitting on a mountain infertile dirt. If there is demand someone will find a way to supply it if possible. The supply side will still do well, given the numbers. The banking industry makes a fortune from millions of tiny fees.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#9 J-CA

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 01:03 PM

View PostLFC, on 28 October 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

I actually believe in Trickle Down Economics ... when marginal tax rates are somewhere closer to maybe 75%...
Then you don't believe in Trickle Down Economics, taxing high incomes at a high rate is a direct contradiction of the whole premise of supply side economics.
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#10 LFC

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 01:39 PM

View PostAnBr, on 28 October 2015 - 11:47 AM, said:

I believe in more of trickle up than tinkle on. Demand is a more dominate factor. Supply only matters in relation to demand.

I don't find the two mutually exclusive, but I agree that demand is more important. Even Bush (eventually) admitted that we had a 70% consumer driven economy.

View PostJ-CA, on 28 October 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

Then you don't believe in Trickle Down Economics, taxing high incomes at a high rate is a direct contradiction of the whole premise of supply side economics.

Your definition isn't very useful because of your use of the relative term "high rate". What's high to you might be different than what's high to me, both of which are almost assuredly different than what's high to Paul Ryan. Bruce Bartlett said they wrung everything you could hope for out of Trickle Down a long time ago and taxation rats were about appropriate under Clinton. Today's GOP would call Clinton era rates "high", hence the Bush tax cuts.

There's a level of taxation that will choke off risk taking and investment in things outside of the safest avenues. Cutting taxes to below that level provide a stimulative effect. Cutting taxes by half again beyond that level won't do shit because, as AnBr mentioned, demand is a more dominant factor. For example, I believe that cutting a capital gains tax from, say, 50% to 40% for the highest earners could have a stimulative effect due to investment especially in a high interest rate (like we haven't seen in years) or low money availability (like we saw after the Bush Bust) environment. I don't believe cutting rates from 20% to 10% would do a thing. But then, I don't see a top 40% rate as necessarily all that high while today's Republicans would view it as slavery.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#11 J-CA

    Probably in one of my drunken stupors..

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 01:41 PM

View PostLFC, on 28 October 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

.. Cutting taxes by half again beyond that level won't do shit because, as AnBr mentioned, demand is a more dominant factor...
I am confused, if you agree that demand is a more dominant factor then you don't believe in supply-side economics, so then you can't believe in trickle down.
I am the burrito until someone hands me to a philosopher.

#12 LFC

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 02:32 PM

View PostJ-CA, on 28 October 2015 - 01:41 PM, said:

I am confused, if you agree that demand is a more dominant factor then you don't believe in supply-side economics, so then you can't believe in trickle down.

I'm really confused. Do you believe that an economy the size of America's is impacted by only one factor? I see that providing more money for the demand side coupled with a 90% marginal rate on high incomes will not provide the same outcome as providing more money for the demand side coupled with a 50% marginal rate on high incomes. In fact I find that statement to be pretty blatantly obvious.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#13 AnBr

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 04:20 PM

Posted Image
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#14 andydp

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 06:42 PM

Another blast from Bloomberg News:


Kansas Tax Patches Fail as Tea-Party Experiment Riles Residents

http://www.bloomberg...riles-residents


Brownback, who won re-election last November, is paying a price. Three-fifths of Kansans surveyed said his income-tax cuts have been "a failure" or "a tremendous failure," according to the Docking Institute of Public Affairs at Fort Hays State University.
The poll released Oct. 23 also showed the governor is less popular in Kansas than Democratic President Barack Obama. Eighteen percent said they were satisfied with Brownback’s performance, compared to 28 percent for Obama.

the rest of the article is a major blast against Brownback but the bottom line is the people of Kansas voted this guy in twice. Fortunately he can't run again.
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#15 AnBr

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 07:41 PM

Yeah, but the Kochs can always buy the next replacement.
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#16 Probabilistic

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 08:26 PM

View Postandydp, on 29 October 2015 - 06:42 PM, said:

Brownback, who won re-election last November, is paying a price.

Huh? Great time to pay a price.

#17 Traveler

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 08:03 AM

Those idiots get what they deserve. The only bright spot is that the idiocy will persist for the rest of the term, providing incontrovertible proof of the bankrupt trickle down meme. Basically, by going bankrupt.
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#18 LFC

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 09:47 AM

There's your "dynamic scoring", dipshits.

Posted Image
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#19 LFC

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 10:01 AM

Also from Traveler's link...

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In 2012, the legislature cut the top income-tax rate by 26 percent, increased standard deductions for married and single head-of-household filers and eliminated levies on about 191,000 small-business owners. More than 330,000 filers identified themselves as small businesses, however, causing larger-than-forecast revenue losses.

Lawmakers moved to find more money without rolling back the cuts, acceding to Brownback’s strategy of shifting taxation from earnings to consumption.

Less than four months ago, the legislature raised the sales tax to 6.5 percent from 6.15 percent, and boosted the cigarette levy by 50 cents a pack. Lawmakers eliminated most income-tax deductions and halved property-tax and mortgage-interest deductions. They enacted a six-week tax amnesty program, allowing laggards to pay without penalties, anticipating it would generate $30 million.

The effort included cuts to education and borrowing to make required pension payments. From 2013 through the 2016 fiscal years, more than $400 million was siphoned from the highway fund, which is used for road construction and maintenance.

This is Republican policy, disproportionately moving the tax burden down to lower earners and putting off maintenance on future generations. Live for today! After all, Jesus is coming to wipe us out soon anyway.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#20 D. C. Sessions

    I don't have to pretend to be an adult any more

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 10:44 AM

And in other news, businesses on the Arkansas side of KC are staying there. Job gains in AK AR are several times that in adjacent parts of KS.

Thanks for the correction.
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