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Religion in Government - The Corruption of the Constitution


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#41 LFC

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 12:17 PM

Tennessee, after seeing all of the right-wingnut Christianist things going on in GA, NC, and MS have decided they need to get on the board. They voted to make the Bible the state book, happily and righteously pissing on the separation of church and state.

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Tennessee is poised to make history as the first state in the nation to recognize the Holy Bible as its official book.

After nearly 30 minutes of debate, the state Senate on Monday approved the measure, sponsored by Sen. Steve Southerland, R-Morristown, with a 19-8 vote, sending the legislation to Gov. Bill Haslam’s desk.

While proponents stressed the historic significance of the holy book and its religious meaning, some opponents argued that the bill trivializes something they hold sacred while others stressed constitutional reservations.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

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#42 Banty

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 12:30 PM

View PostLFC, on 05 April 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

Tennessee, after seeing all of the right-wingnut Christianist things going on in GA, NC, and MS have decided they need to get on the board. They voted to make the Bible the state book, happily and righteously pissing on the separation of church and state.

Lemme guess - there was no "Tennessee State Book" before then? How many states even have "State Book" like "State Bird"? Google is unhelpful as there are many meanings to "state book".

It's infuriating how the christianists find any and every little opening to insert Christian items and references into the public sphere wherever they can - transparently just to do that.

We got some new traffic circles on our main drag. Once they were constructed, a well-fashioned little (about 3 foot high) wooden cross appeared in on one of the circle centers. Not in the middle, on the side where approaching from one street it was very visible. There's an old long established Presbyterian church on that circle.

There have been no accidents at that spot; it didn't have the appearance of a memorial at all. But it was a definite Xtian cross. It was there a few months, then disappeared. I haven't seen anything in the news about it; I assume the highway department or the town quietly removed it. But, good grief. There's a big fat (and perfectly legitimate) cross at the church right there.
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#43 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 12:34 PM

View PostBanty, on 05 April 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:



Lemme guess - there was no "Tennessee State Book" before then? How many states even have "State Book" like "State Bird"? Google is unhelpful as there are many meanings to "state book".

It's infuriating how the christianists find any and every little opening to insert Christian items and references into the public sphere wherever they can - transparently just to do that.

We got some new traffic circles on our main drag. Once they were constructed, a well-fashioned little (about 3 foot high) wooden cross appeared in on one of the circle centers. Not in the middle, on the side where approaching from one street it was very visible. There's an old long established Presbyterian church on that circle.

There have bee no accidents at that spot; it didn't have the appearance of a memorial at all. But it was a definite Xtian cross. It was there a few months, then disappeared. I haven't seen anything in the news about it; I assume the highway department or the town quietly removed it. But, good grief. There's a big fat (and perfectly legitimate) cross at the church right there.


Heh. Driving south my wife and I are always sure we are near the Masin-Dixon line when the farm fields sprout telephone poles forming two silver and one gold painted crosses.

Yes, phone poles.

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#44 LFC

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 12:45 PM

They're not big on Matthew 6:6. They need to be as flamboyant about their belief as possible.

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When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you."

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#45 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 12:50 PM

View PostLFC, on 05 April 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

They're not big on Matthew 6:6. They need to be as flamboyant about their belief as possible.

Yes, they aren't happy if they can't use their religion to poke you in the nose if you don't agree (or one-up you if you share the faith).

Not too many Christians do follow that passage, even among the more quiet sects. Pretty hard to have a Church and be secret.

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#46 Banty

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 01:00 PM

It's really about how currently *living* Christian is said to be about. Not actually prayer. It's a striving for influence, that it not be limited. And the whole Tebowing thing about proseltization being part of being Christian, so much so that to limit it is to discriminate against them. So religion should be everywhere else it's discrimination.
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#47 MSheridan

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Posted 05 April 2016 - 01:01 PM

See also every single bit of Matthew 23, all of it red letter text.

Matthew 23:13-15 is always apropos.

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But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Matthew 23:23 is also a favorite.

Quote

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.


#48 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 06 April 2016 - 08:54 AM

View PostLFC, on 05 April 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

Tennessee, after seeing all of the right-wingnut Christianist things going on in GA, NC, and MS have decided they need to get on the board. They voted to make the Bible the state book, happily and righteously pissing on the separation of church and state.

This IS meaningless gesture politics, isn't it? Are there any provisions in the text of the law for implementation, or for interpretation in particular cases, or terms of reference - that is, boundary conditions determining when the State Book does or does not apply?

Or is it just a jolly old free-for-all, in which any judge, police officer, doctor, etc., etc., can do what ever comes into their heads at any critical moment? From this distance (literal and metaphorical), American local government looks to me just like that.
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#49 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 06 April 2016 - 09:04 AM

View PostRich T Bikkies, on 06 April 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:



This IS meaningless gesture politics, isn't it? Are there any provisions in the text of the law for implementation, or for interpretation in particular cases, or terms of reference - that is, boundary conditions determining when the State Book does or does not apply?

Or is it just a jolly old free-for-all, in which any judge, police officer, doctor, etc., etc., can do what ever comes into their heads at any critical moment? From this distance (literal and metaphorical), American local government looks to me just like that.

Consider that there are state birds, some state whales, state cookies, whatever, it really isn't significant. Symbolically, it sure looks like the state favoring Christianity.

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#50 Practical Girl

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Posted 06 April 2016 - 10:21 AM

Considering the effect this could have on public education, I don't think this is meaningless. A State government makes the Bible their "State book". The next edict? All our children must read it. Chilling.

But, you know- State's rights, and all. That includes TN being one of the "top three" of dragging Federal funds from the rest of us. Sure. They have Jesus, but they refuse to take care of their own. Fed money and cheap digs are the only two reasons that keeps this backwater (but beautiful) state from being tops in people living in poverty.

And it's all because we love Jesus. Coming to a classroom near you. I'm tired of paying for ignorant.
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“A republic,” Franklin said, “if you can keep it.”


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#51 LFC

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 04:20 PM

A school board in interior California (I actually visited Palmdale many years back and it was a desert shithole) decided that virtually any religious group can offer scholarships to high school seniors but distinctly unreligious groups can't. What's this about Christianity being under attack?

Quote

A lawsuit filed in federal court last week accuses California’s Antelope Valley Union School Board of blocking scholarships from atheists while allowing them from Scientology.

Courthouse News Service reported that the district was sued after it refused to let students compete for $17,950 in scholarships from the Freedom From Religion Foundation and $1,750 in scholarships from the Antelope Valley Freethinkers.

According to the atheist groups, Palmdale High School declined to notify students of their scholarship offers, which required applicants to submit an essay on the challenges of being a “nonbeliever.”

The lawsuit notes that the school did offer scholarships from other groups — including the Church of Scientology — that “solicited religious speech, required applicants to be religious, and dealt with the historically controversial topics of homosexuality and guns.”

I guess it's a case of believe what you want as long as you believe.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#52 MSheridan

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 05:07 PM

I have relatives who live not terribly far from there up in the Tehachipi Mountains and so I've been to Palmdale too. It and nearby Lancaster make up my least favorite part of California. Calling them desert shitholes is being too hard on other places that are merely desert shitholes. The entire Antelope Valley region is very high in meth use and child abuse cases and the ravages are very visible on the faces of the inhabitants. The aerosolized despair is palpable. Any prejudice they may have against secularism hasn't done them even a scintilla of good.

#53 Traveler

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 01:47 PM

"aerosolized despair" . What an image.
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#54 MSheridan

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 02:45 PM

Not positive it's original to me. It might be or I might have swiped it from somewhere. I can't always remember that sort of thing. Either way, I'm not kidding about how awful those towns are. I have occasionally set myself the purely theoretical question of exactly how much salary would be enough to induce me to live there for a few years (NO amount would be enough to get me to live there permanently). Mid-to-high six figures, I think, and only for a very few years.

#55 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 08:14 PM

Antelope Valley is a bit split -- it's also home to Edwards and a lot of aerospace and NASA.

Says /me who has a brother and a son living and working there.
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#56 MSheridan

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 01:58 PM

What's your opinion of those two towns?

#57 LFC

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 02:13 PM

View PostMSheridan, on 20 April 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:

What's your opinion of those two towns?

He likes at least two of the residents?
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#58 LFC

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 04:34 PM

View PostLFC, on 05 April 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

Tennessee, after seeing all of the right-wingnut Christianist things going on in GA, NC, and MS have decided they need to get on the board. They voted to make the Bible the state book, happily and righteously pissing on the separation of church and state.

Follow-up: Gov. Haslam vetoed. They tried to override the veto but failed. The right-wing Christianist whining was as loud as it was predictable. Ooooh! The oppression! This is what the loss of privilege and special treatment sounds likes.

Quote

Rep. John DeBerry D-Memphis: “This bill is here because of militant movements going around this nation,"

Sponsor Rep. Jerry Sexton, R-Bean Station (former Baptist minister): "There is so much oppression today of Christian beliefs and values it seems it is not the popular thing to do," he said. "I stand today to say that I'm a Christian and I'm proud that I am and I'm proud that I live in a country that I have the freedom to do that."

Another pretty openly states his intention was to push America towards being a Christianist nation:

Quote

“What if we are the state that fans the flame and causes other states to pay attention and read our actions," said Rep. Terri Lynn Weaver, R-Lancaster. "What if Tennessee was the state that started the revival that this nation so desperately needs.”

But another, a Democrat naturally, lectured the body on what the Bible actually says.

Quote

Rep. Johnny Shaw, D-Bolivar, who said he changed his opinion on the bill after reading a Bible passage.

“You know what this legislative body ought to be doing if we really wanted to honor the Bible? We ought to make sure everybody in the state is covered health wise,” he said to the applause from some of his colleagues. “You’re not going to see no difference in Tennessee whether you make it the state book or not.”

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#59 Rue Bella

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 04:46 PM

This was one of the threads I've been staying away from since I figured it would make me mad and write something really, really nasty about Christians - which I would prefer to not do cuz I know they are not all bad - or so I've heard. Over time I've deleted some doozie rants, though it felt good writing them.

Tennessee state book - cuz obviously they are intellectually challenged:

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#60 LFC

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 04:58 PM

I think it's generally uncommon that religion gets bashed directly here. It's really only the demand that religion, and in particular a certain toxic brand of Christianity, gets privileged status and push its beliefs onto the nation that sets us off. I don't believe it's anywhere near a majority of Christians that are pushing these types of horrible legislation, but I do believe that those that do are becoming the face of Christianity in America.

I don't know how other Christians take back that identity, though Pope Frank seems to be helping a lot, but it's that impression that these folks ARE what Christianity is all about is likely a major cause for the increase in people becoming non-believers.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer





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