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Police Behaving Badly and What to Do About It


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#1 LFC

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 01:27 PM

Since the Michael Brown thread is semi-dedicated (though drifty, as so many TRS threads are), I decided to open this one up to follow along as new cases come out of over the top police behavior. This was prompted by a Sullivan post that linked to a site called Photograph Is Not A Crime (PINAC). The post called out links to three recent videos, here, here, and here, that show police defensiveness on cameras.

Sullivan also posted a piece called The Case for Police Reform Remains Strong which lays out some remedies.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#2 LFC

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 01:37 PM

I was just cruising the comments of that first video link and found this (bold mine).

Quote

"I still need to see an ID."

"And I still need to know what I am being charged for."

"You're fixing to be charged for failure to ID, is what you're fixing to be charged for."

"Sir, I don't have to provide you with an ID, unless I'm being charged with something. I have done nothing wrong."

"Where did you go to law school?"

"I don't have to answer that. I plead the fifth."

"You know, what if I shoot you and take you to jail for failure to ID?"

"Sir, unless you are charging me with something, I do not have to provide you with an ID... Sir you know the law..."

Any police officer making terroristic threats should be immediately suspended. If investigated and found guilty (tough not to since he's on tape saying it) he should be immediately fired, have to forfeit all benefits, and be charged with a felony.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#3 AnBr

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 01:57 PM

Every cop that is let off the way Wilson was is a green light for all abusive cops to carry on as usual. Besides reform, I am thinking that a few examples will have to be made of errant cops.
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“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

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Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#4 Probabilistic

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 02:27 PM

Chilling. Any idea whether there were any action taken against the policemen involved?

Another reason for donning wearable video recording devices.

@AnBr - Strongly agree. Cops have acted with impunity for so long that now they are at a loss their behavior is getting some scrutiny (not nearly enough).

#5 AnBr

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 02:47 PM

Witness the police reaction to the Rams Hand Up gesture. They no longer know that they are doing anything wrong.
“Trump’s a stupid man’s idea of a smart person, a poor man’s idea of a rich person & a weak man’s idea of a strong man.”

— Fran Lebowitz


“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#6 LFC

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 03:56 PM

Yet they so desperately want a public apology that they claim they received one, something the Rams themselves publicly deny ever happened. And no wonder. Look at this picture. I wonder how many of these players had been rousted for no other reason than they were young and black.

Posted Image
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#7 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 04:04 PM

"Didn't apologize" - "Did too!" - "Did not!"
Trump delenda est.
GOP delenda est.
Resist!

#8 Practical Girl

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 04:14 PM

Ah, I think the NFL players were just in practice mode. 55.4% of all NFL players have been arrested, so kids- GET GOOD AT THIS.
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#9 LFC

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 05:47 PM

There's some interesting back and forth on police pay over at Sullivan, but the thing that really made my eyes open was the behavior of police as compared to the level of education they achieved.

Quote

According to a 2006 report by USA Today, “In an analysis of disciplinary cases against Florida cops from 1997 to 2002, the International Association of Chiefs of Police found that officers with only high school educations were the subjects of 75% of all disciplinary actions. Officers with four-year degrees accounted for 11% of such actions.”

Police Chief Magazine similarly published findings that indicate that officers with bachelor of arts degrees performed on par with officers who had 10 years’ additional experience. And yet police departments have struggled to toughen up their educational requirements in part because recruiters are concerned that the relatively low pay offered by most entry-level law enforcement jobs would not be enough to attract college graduates.

An interesting comparison is made.

Quote

We want men and women in law enforcement who treat their jobs as police officers, as what they are: some of the most important jobs in our country that carry a great responsibility. Yet we pay them on par with postal workers.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#10 indy

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 05:53 PM

 Practical Girl, on 02 December 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

Ah, I think the NFL players were just in practice mode. 55.4% of all NFL players have been arrested, so kids- GET GOOD AT THIS.

To be fair the guy heading the police officers union (forget his name) who was screaming about this the loudest was fired when he was a cop for falsifying reports. Something he should probably have been arrested for, but wasn't.

#11 LFC

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 06:17 PM

 indy, on 02 December 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

To be fair the guy heading the police officers union (forget his name) who was screaming about this the loudest was fired when he was a cop for falsifying reports. Something he should probably have been arrested for, but wasn't.

Holy cow! This guy has quite the corrupt history as a police officer. Since he got booted he's also been a veritable fountain of support for police cover-ups.

Quote

According to court documents, in 1997 Roorda was reprimanded for attempting “…to try to ‘cover’ for another police officer by filing a report that contained false statements as to what happened during a suspect’s apprehension and arrest. As a result of this false report, all charges against the defendant involved were dropped.” The court notes that Roorda was informed, “If it is ever determined again that you have lied in a police report, you will receive a more severe punishment, up to and including termination.”[/size]
Roorda was later terminated for lying about interactions with other police officers after accusing them of threatening and abusing him. Roorda’s charges were disproved by audio tapes of the conversations provided to investigators by Roorda himself.

He then managed to get himself elected to the Missouri House of Representatives where he pulled this stunt:

Quote

Following a stint as a police chief of Kimmswick, Roorda was elected to the Missouri House of Representatives where he attempted to amend the state’s Sunshine laws with regard to police activities.
According to MissouriWatchdog.org, Roorda introduced an amendment that would ” prevent the public from obtaining ‘any records and documents pertaining to police shootings … if they contain the name of any officer who did the shooting’.” Under Roorda’s proposal, a police officer’s name would only be entered into the public record if they were charged with a crime. The proposal also extended to the names of police officers who were in involved in a shooting, regardless of whether the officer was on duty.

Not surprisingly, he's also against the use of police cameras.

Quote

While simultaneously serving in the Missouri House while employed as the business manager for the SLPOA, Roorda pushed back against equipping police officers and cruisers with dash and body cameras, saying, “Instead of the cameras being there to protect the officers, they get disciplined for petty stuff constantly — for violating the uniform code, or rolling through a stop sign for an urgent call, or for not turning the camera on. That’s one of the hottest issues for my guys. They’re tired of the nitpicking, and that’s what the cameras have been used to do.”

So why hasn't the news reported that a major figure in the St. Louis Police Officers Association is not just personally corrupt, but has defended corruption at every turn? Once again, so much for the bullshit "liberal media" meme.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#12 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 06:25 PM

They haven't found a way to fit the "but both sides do it" story.
Trump delenda est.
GOP delenda est.
Resist!

#13 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 04:45 PM

 LFC, on 02 December 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:


We want men and women in law enforcement who treat their jobs as police officers, as what they are: some of the most important jobs in our country that carry a great responsibility. Yet we pay them on par with postal workers.

Could be worse -- they might be paid like teachers.
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#14 indy

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 09:54 PM

http://www.washingto...s-only-one-fix/

#15 AnBr

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 11:19 PM

And the crux of it:

Quote

The problem is that cops aren’t held accountable for their actions, and they know it. These officers violate rights with impunity. They know there’s a different criminal justice system for civilians and police.


Above all else, this.
“Trump’s a stupid man’s idea of a smart person, a poor man’s idea of a rich person & a weak man’s idea of a strong man.”

— Fran Lebowitz


“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#16 LFC

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 11:34 AM

TPM has covered another case of an officer who uses excessive force and walks with no charges. During a domestic dispute, police handcuffed a woman and put her into the back of the car. She was apparently drunk and wouldn't shut up. Then, from the back seat of the car and out the door, she kicked one of the officers who responded by belting her in the face so hard that he fractured the orbit of her right eye.

Here's the video starting around the point where he lunged into the car and threw the punch.
https://www.youtube....rvV5ZzIxg#t=160

And here's what she ended up looking like. (A medical examination found that the officer sustained "no obvious injury".)

Posted Image
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#17 AnBr

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 12:11 PM

This in juxtapose to Wilson's "injured" orbit.
“Trump’s a stupid man’s idea of a smart person, a poor man’s idea of a rich person & a weak man’s idea of a strong man.”

— Fran Lebowitz


“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#18 gmat

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 12:40 PM

 AnBr, on 07 December 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:

And the crux of it:



Above all else, this.

Plus the other side of that coin, what happens to policemen who object to the misbehavior of other policemen.

#19 LFC

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 01:09 PM

Worth reading Sullivan's Quote of the Day. Here's a slightly expanded version. It's worth reading the rest of it at the link:

Quote

“Cops can get into a state of mind where they're scared to death. When they're in that really, really frightened place they panic and they act out on that panic. I have known cops who haven’t had a racist bone in their bodies and in fact had adopted black children, they went to black churches on the weekend; and these are white cops. They really weren’t overtly racist. They weren’t consciously racist. But you know what they had in their minds that made them act out and beat a black suspect unwarrantedly? They had fear. They were afraid of black men. I know a lot of white cops who have told me. And I interviewed over 900 police officers in 18 months and they started talking to me, it was almost like a therapy session for them I didn’t realize that they needed an outlet to talk,” – Constance Rice, civil rights attorney.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#20 LFC

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 05:22 PM

Fox News host expresses agreement that minorities need to be trained to be more sensitive to police.

Quote

Pirro asked her viewers: "Do police need to be retrained on how to be sensitive to the 'minority community?'"

She then read a response she received from one viewer: "No enough is enough," the viewer wrote. "The general public needs to be trained to be more sensitive to the police and show them the respect they deserve."

Pirro responded to the viewer simply: "I agree."

It reads like a story from The Onion.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer





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