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The Legalization of Marijuana Thread


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#1 LFC

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 02:40 PM

I'm expecting this subject to move forward, so I'm starting a thread to track the progress. I don't think it's going to move quite like marriage equality, but perhaps more like gambling ... at least until legalization (or limited legalization, decriminalization, etc.) occurs at the Federal level. Most states have a lottery, fewer allow slots, and even fewer allow table games. Yeah, it's not a perfect analogy, and gambling on Indian reservations mix it up even more, but it kinda' fits. At the state level, we already have a mix of recreational legalization (Colorado and Washington), decriminalization, medical legalization, and recent no changes.

Here's a map (a little dated, but close) of the current status of state marijuana laws.

Posted Image
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

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#2 LFC

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 02:42 PM

Sen. Jeff Merkley of Oregon said he leans towards legalization and will vote for it in November. He's apparently the first U.S. Senator to publicly do so.

Quote

"I think folks on both sides of the argument make a good case," Merkley said. "And there is concern about a series of new products — and we don't have a real track record from Colorado and Washington. But I feel on balance that we spend a lot of money on our criminal justice system in the wrong places and I lean in favor of this ballot measure."

I love the smell of pragmatism in the morning.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"Didn't vote for Hillary Clinton? Then you own [insert horrible act here]."

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

#3 LFC

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 03:37 PM

Happy Fried-day!

Posted Image
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"Didn't vote for Hillary Clinton? Then you own [insert horrible act here]."

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

#4 gmat

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 10:00 AM

It's a good analogy, because neighboring states will see that sales tax money heading Next-door, just like they saw the lottery money heading heading next-door, and the response will be the same.

This war on drugs has been a blight on this country. It's the primary cause of militarization of local police (facilitated by grants from DHS to "fight terrorism")

#5 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 11:27 AM

Note that in Arizona, any detectable metabolites are presumptive impaired driving. Which is insane, since the metabolites are detectable for weeks but does a great job of generating DUID revenues.

The fact that the State also has a medical exemption for the DUID kinda gives the show away.
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#6 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 11:30 AM

View Postgmat, on 25 October 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

It's a good analogy, because neighboring states will see that sales tax money heading Next-door, just like they saw the lottery money heading heading next-door, and the response will be the same.

Actually, if they adopt the "large fine for detectable metabolites" approach, having a legal dope State next door will net the criminalization State more revenue than the legalization State. For instance, Kansas could institute a large fine and "random checkpoints" along I-70 for traffic coming from Colorado and make a mint for very little cost.
The buck stops here; the rest is someone else's problem.
The purpose of "defense spending" isn't "defense," it's "spending."
First they came for the Muslims, and we said "Not this time, motherfucker!"
Our Party! In her relations with other Americans may she always be in the right; but Our Party, right or wrong!

#7 Probabilistic

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 01:12 PM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 25 October 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

Note that in Arizona, any detectable metabolites are presumptive impaired driving. Which is insane, since the metabolites are detectable for weeks but does a great job of generating DUID revenues.

The fact that the State also has a medical exemption for the DUID kinda gives the show away.
Has this gone to the courts yet? But then again if they can charge and confiscate a property on mere presumption...

#8 Traveler

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 04:04 PM

I enjoyed my recent visit to Seattle. Got a little (but expensive!) 1 gram baggy and rolled a pinner that my client and I shared after dinner. Lost my way back two blocks from my hotel. Guess it was worth the money after all. BTW, no problem getting through TSA Pre.
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#9 LFC

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 11:06 AM

Fully legalized marijuana use moved forward a bit in this past election.

Posted Image
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"Didn't vote for Hillary Clinton? Then you own [insert horrible act here]."

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

#10 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 11:10 AM

View PostProbabilistic, on 25 October 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

Has this gone to the courts yet? But then again if they can charge and confiscate a property on mere presumption...

Related post:

http://www.lawyersgu...organized-crime


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#11 LFC

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 03:53 PM

I think we covered this elsewhere, but the whole system of civil forfeiture is criminal. John Oliver covered it brilliantly.

https://www.youtube....h?v=3kEpZWGgJks
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"Didn't vote for Hillary Clinton? Then you own [insert horrible act here]."

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

#12 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 06:50 PM

Looks to me like the next set of dominoes after SSM is going to be this. Time to start the countdown?

Or maybe I'm just hoping, but it'd be pretty cool for a couple of aging Boomers to go out as we came in: strolling along, hand in hand, smelling that "fresh desert air."

And if you weren't in UofA stadium for the Blood, Sweat, and Tears concert back in the autumn of '71, you wouldn't get the joke.
The buck stops here; the rest is someone else's problem.
The purpose of "defense spending" isn't "defense," it's "spending."
First they came for the Muslims, and we said "Not this time, motherfucker!"
Our Party! In her relations with other Americans may she always be in the right; but Our Party, right or wrong!

#13 Traveler

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 09:46 AM

 D. C. Sessions, on 11 November 2014 - 06:50 PM, said:

Looks to me like the next set of dominoes after SSM is going to be this. Time to start the countdown?

Or maybe I'm just hoping, but it'd be pretty cool for a couple of aging Boomers to go out as we came in: strolling along, hand in hand, smelling that "fresh desert air."

And if you weren't in UofA stadium for the Blood, Sweat, and Tears concert back in the autumn of '71, you wouldn't get the joke.
But the pot is a lot better now than it was back then. Still miss the good old Columbian Red though. Best pot ever IMO for taste and attitude.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"We never threaten anyone. We just explain the situation." Russian spokesman

#14 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 01:54 PM

 Traveler, on 12 November 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

Still miss the good old Columbian Red though. Best pot ever IMO for taste and attitude.

But Panama Red scans better.
The buck stops here; the rest is someone else's problem.
The purpose of "defense spending" isn't "defense," it's "spending."
First they came for the Muslims, and we said "Not this time, motherfucker!"
Our Party! In her relations with other Americans may she always be in the right; but Our Party, right or wrong!

#15 Traveler

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 03:03 PM

Scans?

Panama Red was the source of one hilarious moment. Went on a high school trip to see Othello at the local playhouse. Blazed with my buddy beforehand on some choice PR, and we sat down for the performance. The lead actor was a large black gentleman with the worst lisp I had ever heard. Didn't mix with Shakespeare too well. We couldn't stop giggling. It got contagious. Half the student body ended up guffawing while we two literally fell about rolling in the aisles. Felt bad for the poor actor....But frankly, it was a great performance, just not the way he intended...
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"We never threaten anyone. We just explain the situation." Russian spokesman

#16 LFC

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 03:03 PM

Sullivan posts that 1 in 20 arrests are for marijuana possession. From the Washington Post link, you can see the chicken and egg issue with drug arrests and civil forfeiture. Police pour resources into drug arrests and then pay for the program through assets stolen collected via civil forfeiture.

Quote

The total number of arrests for all offenses continues to drop sharply, from a high of 15.3 million in 1997 to 11.3 million in 2013. But marijuana possession arrests have not declined at the same rate – these arrests accounted for 1.6 percent of all arrests in 1990, but make up 5.4 percent of all arrests today. Moreover, arrests for all drug offenses made up a record share – 13.3 percent – of total arrests this year. Drug violations represent the single largest category of arrests tracked by the FBI. As NORML notes, if we assume ACLU’s conservative estimate of a cost of $750 for each marijuana possession arrest, it means that states spent more than $450 million on these arrests in 2013 alone.

The graph shows just how crazy it's gotten. Over 5% of all arrests are for possessing a substance that has not been shown to have killed anybody and has vaguely mixed evidence that it adversely impacts adults even when used regularly.

Posted Image
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"Didn't vote for Hillary Clinton? Then you own [insert horrible act here]."

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

#17 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 03:18 PM

Yeah, well, how would YOU like it if someone took away the easiest (and most profitable) part of your job, huh?
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#18 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 04:09 PM

 Traveler, on 12 November 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Scans?

Which reads better to you:

Quote

Panama Red, Panama Red
He'll steal your woman, then he'll rob your head
Panama Red, Panama Red
On his white horse, Mescalito
He come breezin' through town
I'll bet your woman's up in bed with
ol' Panama Red

or

Quote

Columbian Red, Columbian Red
He'll steal your woman, then he'll rob your head
Columbian Red, Columbian Red
On his white horse, Mescalito
He come breezin' through town
I'll bet your woman's up in bed with
ol' Columbian Red

The buck stops here; the rest is someone else's problem.
The purpose of "defense spending" isn't "defense," it's "spending."
First they came for the Muslims, and we said "Not this time, motherfucker!"
Our Party! In her relations with other Americans may she always be in the right; but Our Party, right or wrong!

#19 Traveler

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 05:33 PM

That extra syllable busts the groove a little.

They both did a good job of robbing your head. PR was much more elusive in my parts. But it WAS appreciated. And remembered.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"We never threaten anyone. We just explain the situation." Russian spokesman

#20 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 05:45 PM

 Traveler, on 12 November 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

That extra syllable busts the groove a little.

Thus, "scan:" to maintain the meter of the poem/song.
The buck stops here; the rest is someone else's problem.
The purpose of "defense spending" isn't "defense," it's "spending."
First they came for the Muslims, and we said "Not this time, motherfucker!"
Our Party! In her relations with other Americans may she always be in the right; but Our Party, right or wrong!





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