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Voter ID Laws Are Completely Unnecessary


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#1 Practical Girl

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 04:52 PM

We knew that, but a nice guest post/smack down of the judicial reasoning behind these laws from a law professor who's been tracking voter fraud for years. From WaPo:


Quote

So far, I’ve found about 31 different incidents (some of which involve multiple ballots) since 2000, anywhere in the country. If you want to check my work, you can read a comprehensive list of the incidents below.
To put this in perspective, the 31 incidents below come in the context of general, primary, special, and municipal elections from 2000 through 2014. In general and primary elections alone, more than 1 billion ballotswere cast in that period.

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#2 andydp

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 07:12 AM

One of the big argumets for Voter ID laws is to keep "illegal aliens" from voting.

Now... I'm no expert but... If you're in this country illegaly, and are trying to keep a VERY low profile why would you risk exposure and arrest by voting illegaly ?

In other words: just because they don't speak English doesn't mean they're stupid.

Now for the other argument: people moving from one state to another and voting twice. Seems North Carolina did a SSAN comparison and found 25K matching SSAN numbers in other states' voting rolls. I'm not sure if NC is implying there are 25K illegal voters in their state. Frankly to me its a paperwork exercise. Their new citizens (mostly Democrats) haven't disenrolled from their old state.

I will make one argument for voting in another district: I have a house in Maine, I pay property taxes there. I should be allowed to vote in property and school tax matters. (I'll vote for representatives in my home state thank you)
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#3 Joanna

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 07:49 AM

this argument about illegals is so beyond stupid. People who don't even report crimes for fear of deportation,will risk all their livelihoods to vote. I knwo few illegals, and they do all kinds of things, but voting (or even thinking about it!) is not on the list.

More interesting question is how many Florida snowbirds votes here and also mails absentee balots up north? this thing came up few times, but I am not sure if there is any merit to it.

#4 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 07:50 AM

As people have pointed out elsewhere, recruiting masses if fraudulent voters would be a really stupid way to try to steal elections compared to fraud among the officials overseeing the vote. Wonder why these Red state guys hot after voter fraud never talk about THAT as an issue? Hmmm.

Basically this feeds the fear if the older white GOP base that brown people are illegally stealing control of the country. That it empowers GOP states to do things to surpresses minority votes AND push back against immigration reform are bonus points. Or maybe the last two are the main points and feeding the Beast of the base is a bonus. Who knows?
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#5 LFC

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 08:35 AM

View Postandydp, on 08 August 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

In other words: just because they don't speak English doesn't mean they're stupid.

I can't believe you said that. Why do you hate America's exceptionalism?
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#6 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 08:40 AM

View Postandydp, on 08 August 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

Seems North Carolina did a SSAN comparison and found 25K matching SSAN numbers in other states' voting rolls.

When was the last time you tried to get yourself OFF of the voter rolls? My experiences have basically been that it ranges from "royal pain in the ass" to "impossible." And by "impossible," I mean that there's no mechanism short of a court order to make it happen. "Royal pain in the ass" can involve a trip to the County recorder's office and spending a morning waiting in several queues while successive people try to find out how to do it, because it almost never happens.

And, oddly enough, that's a good thing. Because if all it took was a phone call, you can bet your sweet bippy that a whole bunch of people in competitive districts would arrive at the polls on Election Day to discover that they had been removed from the rolls.
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#7 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 08:49 AM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 08 August 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:



When was the last time you tried to get yourself OFF of the voter rolls? My experiences have basically been that it ranges from "royal pain in the ass" to "impossible." And by "impossible," I mean that there's no mechanism short of a court order to make it happen. "Royal pain in the ass" can involve a trip to the County recorder's office and spending a morning waiting in several queues while successive people try to find out how to do it, because it almost never happens.

And, oddly enough, that's a good thing. Because if all it took was a phone call, you can bet your sweet bippy that a whole bunch of people in competitive districts would arrive at the polls on Election Day to discover that they had been removed from the rolls.

Yes, and in a country that struggles to get what, above 40% elugable voters to actually bother voting, significant numbers are going to make the effort to vote in two different states. If they do, they are more likely to be retirees or other people well enough off to have free time and willing to deal with government to get that absentee ballot from the other state (negating Voter ID rules...). Probably a demographic that skews GOP, not Democratic.
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#8 Traveler

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 09:52 AM

This absentee ballot issue is an interesting take. Wouldn't the original article have uncovered that though?
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#9 golden_valley

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 09:59 AM

At least in my state a vote by mail ballot (formerly called absentee) is still based on the voter's home address. The voter roll given to poll workers might note that the voter has an absentee ballot.

#10 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 10:47 AM

View PostLFC, on 08 August 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

I can't believe you said that. Why do you hate America's exceptionalism?

Superb, but I did do a double-take at first. The world really does need a new type-face called Ironic.
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#11 Progressive whisperer

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 01:03 PM

View PostTraveler, on 08 August 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

This absentee ballot issue is an interesting take. Wouldn't the original article have uncovered that though?

I don't know, I assume that there isn't a lot of cross-state checking. I would think that the way you'd get removed from your old state voter rolls would be by registering in a new state. Ideally the registra would collect your old address and ask your former district to remove you, but I don't know that is how it works. Asking to be removed from the voting list is pretty far down my to-do when I relocate.

Clearly the idea that lots of people commute from one state polling place to a place in a different state to vote twice is a fantasy.
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#12 Joanna

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 01:18 PM

these people usually own two houses, one up norht, on down here, so they do have two addresses. Apparently they are eligible for voting in both, and I am not sure if there is mechanism to check if they do that. I know this question pops up often here when talking about voters'r fraud. Somehow we have more democrats in the state, but it;s the Republicans who have been in charge for long long time. Kind of insteresting...:)

#13 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 01:21 PM

View PostProgressive whisperer, on 08 August 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

I would think that the way you'd get removed from your old state voter rolls would be by registering in a new state. Ideally the registra would collect your old address and ask your former district to remove you, but I don't know that is how it works.

Not that I can tell. I mean, after all there's some administrative cost to doing that. As it is, when you get a driver's licence in a new State [1] they cancel the one in the old State, so don't expect even more services at Government expense.

[1] When you move in-State, they don't cancel your licence but they do require you to keep the address current. Another expensive service to the takers that move around.
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#14 AnBr

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 01:21 PM

Could be an argument to nationalize the electorial process. Do away with gerrymandering and consolidate voter databases.
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#15 Joanna

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 02:46 PM

while we at it, can we move voting to Sunday??? .........

#16 AnBr

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 03:07 PM

Need more than that. Still a lot of low wage workers have to work on Sunday, too.
“Trump’s a stupid man’s idea of a smart person, a poor man’s idea of a rich person & a weak man’s idea of a strong man.”

— Fran Lebowitz


“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#17 Practical Girl

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 03:10 PM

Good GOD. We have national holidays, right? Why not Voting Day? That one doesn't even have to be every year.
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--- On September 17, 1787, as Benjamin Franklin was leaving the deliberations of the Constitutional Convention, at Independence Hall, in Philadelphia, a woman called out to him, saying, “Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?”
“A republic,” Franklin said, “if you can keep it.”


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#18 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 03:32 PM

View PostJoanna, on 08 August 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

while we at it, can we move voting to Sunday??? .........

Constitution. However, early voting and vote by mail get the same effect, and that's within the power of Congress to mandate for all Federal elections.

Oh, wait ...
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#19 Joanna

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 03:43 PM

yeah, early voting.... Tell that to Rick Scott

#20 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 04:33 PM

View PostJoanna, on 08 August 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

yeah, early voting.... Tell that to Rick Scott

I believe your point was to take that out of his control.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO





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