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The All Things Global Warming / Climate Change / Climate Disruption Thread


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#2661 LFC

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 05:06 PM

View PostTraveler, on 03 March 2021 - 04:30 PM, said:

Very interesting article on the Atlantic current "conveyor belt". Could be a fan hitting calamity or just noise?

TLDR but I've heard about this for at least several years. There is apparently data that shows the Gulf Stream is slowing. If it buckles it will be a major change in the ecosystem of the Eastern Seaboard and could potentially change the weather in northern Europe to the colder.
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#2662 Traveler

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Posted 04 March 2021 - 09:01 AM

Actually not that long. Most is graphics. Just a good display of what we already know. But useful updating of what the experts think about it now.
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#2663 Traveler

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Posted 06 March 2021 - 03:14 PM

Finally, some good news about what can be done.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#2664 LFC

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 11:45 AM

The Social Cost of Carbon is the latest term for what are currently externalized and (conveniently for industry) ignored costs.

Quote

One of the most significant court cases about climate change was decided this month by a federal appeals court in Chicago. Given that it was steeped in the enervating context of refrigerator regulations, you may have missed it. But amid the stultifying discussions of compressors and insulation foam was a crucial advance in our nation’s belated attempts to forestall global climate catastrophe.

It all comes down to a new phrase: the Social Cost of Carbon.

Here’s why it’s important. By law, government agencies—in this case, the Department of Energy—are often required to show that the benefits of a proposed regulation exceed the costs. Sometimes this is straightforward: If it costs industry $100 million to prevent pollution that will do only $10 million in damage, the government (usually) can’t force them to do it.

Sometimes it’s downright Solomonic. If that pollution regulation can save a single life, is that worth $100 million in industry costs? You might say yes, but usually, the government says no. In fact, we “price lives” all the time—by requiring some safety protections but not others, by building roads the way we do, and in a thousand other ways.

But what about climate change? The costs of a particular regulation—in this case, covering refrigerators—are sometimes easy to assess. But how do you capture the “benefits” of preventing cataclysmic climate change?

Beginning in 2010, a group of economists and scientists set about answering that question. They tried to calculate the likely future costs of shifting climate zones, agricultural disruptions, more extreme events like Superstorm Sandy, more outbreaks of disease, and the many other effects of climate change.

The result is the Social Cost of Carbon (SCC), which, long story short, was calculated to be $36 per ton. That figure, while admittedly an approximation, is the best estimate that the government has put forward so far.

That’s why the Department of Energy used it in its refrigeration regulations—and that’s why some industry groups sued, alleging that the SCC is no better than a guess.

In Zero Zone v. Department of Energy, two conservative judges on the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals disagreed, upholding the use of the SCC and the regulations based on it.

“They did not equivocate,” said Daniel Esty, professor at Yale Law School and the Yale School of Forestry and Environmental Studies, and, from 2011-2014, commissioner of the Connecticut Department of Energy and Environmental Protection.

When he worked at the Environmental Protection Agency under President George H.W. Bush, Esty was part of the team that implemented similar economic analyses in the context of regulating acid rain. Since then, he’s worked on incentive-based ways to address environmental problems—like the “Cap and Trade” approach to climate change. His name is frequently bandied about as a possible director of the EPA in a Hillary Clinton administration.

“Putting a price on pollution in general, and carbon in particular, is the best strategy for motivating change in behaviors that cause harm,” Esty told The Daily Beast. “It’s been hard to figure out the right price… but the judges in this case made clear that this was a serious and thoughtful exercise… It wasn’t an eyeball guess.”

Indeed, while most industry groups have opposed the idea of an SCC, Esty said that having the SCC ratified by a federal appeals court (review by the Supreme Court is possible, but unlikely) will help companies who have already made commitments to sustainability.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#2665 golden_valley

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 01:29 PM

View PostLFC, on 01 April 2021 - 11:45 AM, said:

The Social Cost of Carbon is the latest term for what are currently externalized and (conveniently for industry) ignored costs.

I wish they wouldn't call it social cost. It's an economic cost in the long run.

#2666 LFC

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Posted 01 April 2021 - 03:22 PM

View Postgolden_valley, on 01 April 2021 - 01:29 PM, said:

I wish they wouldn't call it social cost. It's an economic cost in the long run.

They should call it a Corporate Welfare Tax and explain that it's payable by the citizens to support big, fat CEO salaries. That would piss people off.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer





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