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Nigeria: Boko Haram Muslims Kidnap 100s of Christian Girls for Slavery and Child Brides


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#21 Traveler

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:07 AM

Nigeria sure ain't like Norway... Seems like it takes many centuries for cultures to evolve away from corruption. Africans have a long way to go. Botswana is the exception that proves the rule.
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#22 J-CA

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:08 AM

View PostTraveler, on 08 May 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

Nigeria sure ain't like Norway... Seems like it takes many centuries for cultures to evolve away from corruption. Africans have a long way to go. Botswana is the exception that proves the rule.
WTF? Their culture has to "evolve away" from corruption?
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#23 Traveler

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:19 AM

Well, name me an African country outside of Botswana with a well established rule of law, and no corruption. (None come to mind, but there may be another one or two). These are young states that have been freed from colonial rule for less than a century. Contrast that to how Norway keeps its oil money in the planet's largest sovereign wealth fund owned by the citizens. However, corruption is certainly not limited to Africa. Ukraine and Russia are excellent examples. And also very recent countries when you look at what they emerged from 3 decades ago. Communism was every bit as bad as, if not worse, than colonialism in terms of disenfranchising its citizens. It takes time for the institutions and customs of a civil society to emerge.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#24 J-CA

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:24 AM

What does it have to do with culture?
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#25 LFC

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:29 AM

Via Sullivan, abductions in Nigeria have skyrocketed. Very sad.

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#26 dsp

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:33 AM

View PostJ-CA, on 08 May 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

What does it have to do with culture?

What possibilities do you see for explaining persistent corruption other than culture? I've enough of a picture of your ideas to know you're not suggesting there might be a genetic basis for the corruption.

Some people believe this, and not just about African nations. I've seen contributors on Steve Sailer's blog claim that Russia will always be corrupt, because Slavs are genetically predisposed to laziness and criminality.

#27 CobbWebb

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:40 AM

I hope you don' mind me putting in my two cents here. I generally don't have the political acumen to contribute to the conversations here, but I do have some experience in West Africa that might be of help. A few things to keep in mind about Nigeria:
  • It has a population of 174 million people in not that large of a country, with a majority of the population being located in the Christian south.
  • Nearly all the petroleum resources are located in the south and offshore and are therefore controlled by the Christian tribes and population that are located there. The corruption stemming from this has been horrendous for decades.
  • Due to the high population density, there isn't much serious forest left, and in any case, the northern parts of Nigeria are much more arid and is mostly woody savannah. Terrain probably similar to Afghanistan or Pakistan.
  • Boko Haram has only been in existence since 2002. Spawned, in my opinion, by the resentment of the Muslim population against the political and economic corruption in the south and as a general resistance to the changes that are coming with modernization.
  • Boko Haram has been raising hell at will since their beginnings and the government shows little interest or capability of handling them. They have been torching schools and killing the male students extensively.
I find Boko Haram to be abhorrent and would love to see an end to them. But I don't think we can do much, drones and all, if the Nigerian government doesn't take the situation more seriously.

#28 dsp

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:55 AM

Good comment.

#29 baw1064

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 11:29 AM

View PostCobbWebb, on 08 May 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

I hope you don' mind me putting in my two cents here. I generally don't have the political acumen to contribute to the conversations here, but I do have some experience in West Africa that might be of help. A few things to keep in mind about Nigeria:
  • It has a population of 174 million people in not that large of a country, with a majority of the population being located in the Christian south.
  • Nearly all the petroleum resources are located in the south and offshore and are therefore controlled by the Christian tribes and population that are located there. The corruption stemming from this has been horrendous for decades.
  • Due to the high population density, there isn't much serious forest left, and in any case, the northern parts of Nigeria are much more arid and is mostly woody savannah. Terrain probably similar to Afghanistan or Pakistan.
  • Boko Haram has only been in existence since 2002. Spawned, in my opinion, by the resentment of the Muslim population against the political and economic corruption in the south and as a general resistance to the changes that are coming with modernization.
  • Boko Haram has been raising hell at will since their beginnings and the government shows little interest or capability of handling them. They have been torching schools and killing the male students extensively.
I find Boko Haram to be abhorrent and would love to see an end to them. But I don't think we can do much, drones and all, if the Nigerian government doesn't take the situation more seriously.

Also (I was about to comment on cmk's speculation that boko might be derived from beaucoup), the Hausa population is split primarily between Nigeria (former British colony) and Niger (former French colony). In other words, yet another example of colonial gerrymandering that makes a sense of national unity very hard to achieve in both countries--the corruption makes things worse of course.
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#30 J-CA

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 11:49 AM

I do not see who the behaviour of elites screwing over the country that they are in charge of is a cultural issue, it is a universal problem.
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#31 Traveler

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 12:09 PM

Not in all cultures.....I think you are having problems with the semantics. I agree culture isn't the best term to describe how corruption is widespread in one country, but not another. For instance, compare China to Taiwan or Hong Kong. All are pure Chinese culture, but their systems of gubmint and laws are very different, and they are very different in terms of corruption indices. Fact is, corruption happens when the population accepts and expects it. A population can be defined by culture, as well as its gubmint. However, I cannot think of another better term offhand. You are welcome to come up with something.

And I think its pretty well established that the elite screw over everyone in most every country or culture. The US is certainly no exception. But outright corruption is still pretty rare. Its all on the up and up via CU etc.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#32 CobbWebb

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 12:38 PM

The Hausa are a subgroup of the Fulani-Peul peoples which extend from near to Sudan all the way to Senegal. Traditionally cattle herders, but the Hausa settled down long ago and are great merchants.

Many of the governance problems in Africa stem from the Cold War era when the countries were divided up based on which side they supported and the support given by the opposing sides to ruling governments with no regard to how they spent the funds or governed their own people. Zero transparency and the rule of law was at the end of a Kalashnakov or an American equivalent.

#33 baw1064

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 06:48 PM

At last the truth emerges:

It's Hillary''s fault!!!
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#34 Practical Girl

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 07:02 PM

View PostCobbWebb, on 08 May 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

The Hausa are a subgroup of the Fulani-Peul peoples which extend from near to Sudan all the way to Senegal. Traditionally cattle herders, but the Hausa settled down long ago and are great merchants.

Many of the governance problems in Africa stem from the Cold War era when the countries were divided up based on which side they supported and the support given by the opposing sides to ruling governments with no regard to how they spent the funds or governed their own people. Zero transparency and the rule of law was at the end of a Kalashnakov or an American equivalent.

Thanks, CobbWebb, for all the information on this.
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#35 J-CA

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:43 PM

View Postbaw1064, on 08 May 2014 - 06:48 PM, said:

At last the truth emerges:
It's Hillary''s fault!!!
This is pretty hilarious.

Quote

A Daily Beast article raised the issue. It quoted an anonymous U.S. official who criticized the Clinton State Department for rejecting calls in 2012 by some in Congress, the Department of Justice and others to add Boko Haram to the terror list as a threat to U.S. interests and homeland security.
Geez, maybe they didn't get added to the list because they are not a threat to U.S. interests or homeland security?
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#36 J-CA

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 11:11 PM

View PostCobbWebb, on 08 May 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

Due to the high population density, there isn't much serious forest left, and in any case, the northern parts of Nigeria are much more arid and is mostly woody savannah. Terrain probably similar to Afghanistan or Pakistan.
There is lots of talk of how thick the Sambisa Forest is, do you know why that is? Is it correct?
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#37 baw1064

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 09:49 PM

View PostJ-CA, on 08 May 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

Geez, maybe they didn't get added to the list because they are not a threat to U.S. interests or homeland security?

Putting Al Qaeda on the list didn't seem to slow them down very much, so I'm really not sure what the point of putting anybody on the list is.
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#38 J-CA

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 11:26 PM

I think it is supposed to be a magical list of de-due processing.
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#39 D. R. Tucker

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 07:14 AM


Bill Maher Battles Arianna Huffington over Islam: Liberals Too PC to Ever Condemn It


#40 Traveler

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 07:46 AM

DR, that is dead on. dsp could pick that up and run with it over on the left culture thread.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire





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