
So long Internet... it was nice knowing you
#41
Posted 25 April 2014 - 10:55 AM
For more reaction, we turn to the person credited with coining the term net neutrality. Tim Wu is a law professor at Columbia University. He says if the proposed changes go into effect, consumers can expect prices to rise.
TIM WU: Companies like Netflix, companies that - like Amazon that rely on not paying cable and telephone companies to reach consumers will have to pay. And therefore it will end up costing the consumer more.
CORNISH: Now, advocates of usage-based pricing are arguing that, you know, why shouldn't a company like Netflix or Google have to cover the cost of being a bandwidth hog. And they're also saying things that this should in some way enable people to buy cheaper broadband packages.
WU: Well, the problem is there's no real competition in broadband and so prices will not go down. They have never gone down. So I don't think that's going to happen. And as for contributing, these companies are already make enormous contributions. And, in fact, users pay a lot for their broadband to be fast. So it's kind of a strange argument.
Really, what they're talking about here is a new way for cable companies mainly to make more money. And that's one part of the economy I think that doesn't need to make more money.
CORNISH: Now, the head of the FCC has argued that there is a lot of misinformation about their proposal. And there are provisions in the draft that would provide some oversight to deter companies from taking kind of drastic actions. What's your reaction to what they've put forward?
WU: My reaction is that the commission is not omnipotent nor omnipresent, it doesn't know everything that's going on, that there will be a serious cost in terms of free speech. That's very hard to measure economically, very hard for them to see. And so that their idea that they can supervise and see everything that's happening on the Internet, and know that speech is being hurt, is not correct.
CORNISH: But you also have an incredibly active Internet activist community, right? I mean I think people saw that with the Stop Online Privacy Act, that debate. Isn't this a scenario where, again, the Internet in a way polices itself, that people would highlight what they think is abuse by these companies?
WU: I think that community may start policing Tom Wheeler and the FCC. I don't think the community is able to police monopoly carriers. There's no real other option. There's a lot of economic power there. And, as I said, activism needs to be directed towards the FCC to protect net neutrality and not abandon this important principle.
CORNISH: Now, one other thing. Tom Wheeler also says that the new rules would look at any paper priority arrangements carefully, and on a case-by-case basis, and block the ones that aren't found to be commercially reasonable. That's still not enough protection for you, it sounds like.
WU: No, commercially reasonable and free speech are not principles that coexist well.I think we've learned from the history of free speech in this country that you need to have a clear principle, not a case-by-case adjudication of free speech performed by an unaccountable federal bureaucrat.
CORNISH: What's the worst-case scenario here for you, Professor Wu, as far as you're concerned?
WU: I think the worst case is that we see the Internet kind of wither and disappear as a forum for free speech and new companies getting started, a world in which to get started it's more like cable television, you need a lot of money to even open a website and really reach a number of users, that things become entrenched and kind of frozen.
And we've seen what cable TV has become, what it could have become. I think Internet could very easily become that, something where it's only a forum for the rich to speak and nobody else gets heard.
#42
Posted 25 April 2014 - 11:14 AM
Kenneth Boulding
"A person who reads books lives a thousand lives. A person who never reads lives only one"
George Martin
"Is that a real poncho or a Sears poncho?"
Zappa
"and let not mankind bogart love"
Willie Nelson and Colbert
#43
Posted 25 April 2014 - 12:31 PM
— Fran Lebowitz
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
— Carl Sagan
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
#44
Posted 25 April 2014 - 01:38 PM
"The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools." -- Herbert Spencer
"Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position." -- Bill Maher
"Our new Government['s] foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition." -- Alexander Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederacy
#45
Posted 25 April 2014 - 03:24 PM
Tim Wu, on 25 April 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:
... I think Internet could very easily become that, something where it's only a forum for the rich to speak and nobody else gets heard.
#46
Posted 25 April 2014 - 03:42 PM
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire
#47
Posted 25 April 2014 - 03:47 PM
#48
Posted 25 April 2014 - 03:53 PM
J-CA, on 25 April 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:
Not sure that's true. Think Brown Moses and or Glenn Greenwald before he joined Salon. He started as a humble blogger and built up a large enough following for a high-traffic site to hire him on. People can now bubble up out of no where if they have interesting things to say. In the past, they could not. With a non-neutral net, Comcast (or whoever) will be able to throttle anyone they want.
#49
Posted 25 April 2014 - 04:06 PM
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire
#50
Posted 25 April 2014 - 06:29 PM
J-CA, on 25 April 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:
It will go from "free speech" to "speech for just 6 easy payments of $19.95"
The Deaf have lost their sense of "hearing";
Republicans have lost their sense of "common".
#51
Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:47 PM
dsp, on 25 April 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:
It is not a free speech issue in the 1A sense.
#52
Posted 25 April 2014 - 11:31 PM
Keep in mind that as Comcast gets closer to what they want, they are buying more and more media and cable companies.
— Fran Lebowitz
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
— Carl Sagan
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
#53
Posted 26 April 2014 - 02:19 AM
J-CA, on 25 April 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:
It is not a free speech issue in the 1A sense.
I'm sorry, I'm not a network guy, so perhaps I'm wrong here, but as far as I know "bandwidth" isn't actually a thing that costs anyone any actual money. Yes there's a value associated with the data the people transmit, but that value is entirely arbitrary. It doesn't cost Comcast anything extra to send HD video data as opposed to email data. So... my patience for their crying about how there's not enough room in the pipe for everyone to get their House of Cards is extremely limited. And if they were to put fiber into the ground there'd be enough room in the pipe for every computer to be streaming 4K video simultaneously and they could charge the end user a little extra to recoup their capital investment pretty quickly and then it's all gravy.
The Deaf have lost their sense of "hearing";
Republicans have lost their sense of "common".
#54
Posted 26 April 2014 - 07:50 AM
drdredel, on 26 April 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:
Who gets to put all that fiber into the ground, and how do they get paid for that, and who maintains that?
Bandwidth can be thought of as a flow or current and it is not limitless, but it can be metered.
It did happen here. - Banty 11/9/2016
#55
Posted 26 April 2014 - 07:59 AM
Obviously there is a lot of infrastructure that has to be built, maintained, and upgraded.
Comcast is not the problem here, because they will soon see a ton of competition from wireless. The last mile deliveries can be challenged through competition, and the moat is shrinking every day.
It's AT&T, Verizon, and the other backbone services who have the most at stake here.
#56
Posted 26 April 2014 - 09:14 AM
drdredel, on 26 April 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:
As Indy points out, last-mile and core infrastructure are actually separate issues with different parties concerned about them.
You you don't have patience for people crying about House of Cards because you think people should just live with DVD quality instead of 1080p so that your work emails can get through? That is how I feel about it, finding a way to make people pay a little extra for that 1080p stream seems like a solution, making Netflix pay is another way. The problem of course is making sure that Netflix is paying for service and that money being paid is going towards upgrades and not is not just being blackmailed.
#57
Posted 26 April 2014 - 11:22 AM
— Fran Lebowitz
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
— Carl Sagan
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
#58
Posted 26 April 2014 - 11:28 AM
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire
#59
Posted 26 April 2014 - 11:57 AM
Disclaimer: it has been a while since I paid any attention to it, so I cannot be that certain as to exactly how much is currently unlit, but there was so much of it that I would be surprised if they had made that much of a dent in it.
— Fran Lebowitz
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
— Carl Sagan
Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8
"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.”
— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe
“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”
— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937
#60
Posted 26 April 2014 - 12:21 PM
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire
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