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The Right Criticizes Conservative Pundit Charles Krauthammer For Saying Benghazi Is Over


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#1 D. R. Tucker

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 11:05 AM

A number of conservatives criticized popular right-wing commentator Charles Krauthammer for saying that the Benghazi issue is over, saying they would continue to push the issue.

“I just think that as a political issue the country is now tired of it,” Krauthammer said on Fox News this week. “As a political fact, this thing is done. Unfortunately you only have a certain amount of time, a certain amount of attention, and the clock has run out on Benghazi.”

While to many, Krauthammer was simply providing an obvious and realistic analysis of the Benghazi saga: Republicans haven’t found anything to sink the Obama administration with and it’s time to move on.

But to others, Krautahmmer’s comments amounted to heresy.

http://thinkprogress...ammer-benghazi/

#2 gmat

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 11:41 AM

Too bad they can't get obsessed with something useful. Imagine if the right wing was breaking O's balls 24/7 for "dragging his feet on renewable energy", or "presiding over shamefully low levels of public investment".

They could just as easily take it in that direction; it's all arbitrary. If you're going to make shit up to rally your partisans around, why not make up useful shit?

#3 Practical Girl

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 11:59 AM

Quote

“I just think that as a political issue the country is now tired of it,” Krauthammer said

Now getting tired of it? Lol. He has to soft-pedal the truth for his mouth breathing audience, but except for diehards and political junkies, the "country" checked out on this months and months ago. A little too much reality for Krauthammer, but at least a half a foot outside of the bubble.
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#4 Rue Bella

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:24 PM

Back to basics...

BEN GAY!!!!!
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#5 andydp

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 12:45 PM

2 Timothy 4:7

I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

Time to move on.

New scandal: IRS and the Fifth Amendment.

Who wants to bet someone will say they need to change the Fifth Amendment ?

BTW: can anyone give us a progress report on the effort to change th 14th Amendment ? I suspect they have stopped that one because of Sen Ted Cruz ( R ) Canada
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#6 AnBr

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 03:19 PM

Didn't we all know that that would happen after Krauthammer said that? I would have almost been disappointed if they had not.
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#7 Probabilistic

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 10:26 AM

View Postgmat, on 12 April 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

Imagine if the right wing was breaking O's balls 24/7 for "dragging his feet on renewable energy", or "presiding over shamefully low levels of public investment".
Good toke joke.

You need Neil deGrasse Tyson's ship of imagination to search for the alternate universe you describe.

#8 LFC

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 12:37 PM

First, of course they're pissed at Krauthammer. He's trying to take away their favorite toy.

Second, all bets are off when Hillary runs. Expect it to once again be all Benghazi all the time. Excuse me. BENGHAAAAAZZZZZZIIIIII!!!!!
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#9 Sinan

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 01:30 PM

Imagine if they spent this amount of time and effort trying to understand why the SEC has not prosecuted fraud in the financial industry? Or how about getting to the bottom of the dangers or safety of fracking? How about an investigation into redistricting efforts and the creation of an amendment that fixes it once and for all? Or maybe they could explore the utility of the electoral college?
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#10 gmat

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 03:24 PM

View PostSinan, on 13 April 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Imagine if they spent this amount of time and effort trying to understand why the SEC has not prosecuted fraud in the financial industry? Or how about getting to the bottom of the dangers or safety of fracking? How about an investigation into redistricting efforts and the creation of an amendment that fixes it once and for all? Or maybe they could explore the utility of the electoral college?

Now you're talking. (Have a hit off this orb)

#11 Traveler

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Posted 13 April 2014 - 08:43 PM

All for 1-3. Not that any of it matters IMO. And AFAICS, the electoral college is not such a bad thing. So long as the blue small states are offset by the red small states. Which is the case now.
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#12 Sinan

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 08:53 AM

I totally despise the EC, it is an affront to democracy and the idea of one man, one vote and flies in the face of the very notion of direct election of your leaders. It is a by product of an era when the elite (the founders) did not trust the masses. Those days are long gone. Every cycle we endure pointless and silly campaigns trying to woo insignificant numbers of people in key states all because of this antiquated law. The states already have unfair representation in the Senate. Not only is the EC an affront to millions of conservatives in blue states, it makes voting as a liberal in red states almost useless. There is no substance to the argument that a states interests should somehow trump those of the people. There is nothing unique about the national interests of an Iowan over those millions in other states who never seem to get any attention at all. When you combine it's obvious inequality with monied interests, you can see where this is going. No one spends anything in Texas, California or New York, they just go there to get donations. But millions are spent wooing small numbers of voters in Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. It is conceivable that the winner in a national POTUS election could lose the total vote by millions upon millions yet lose due to the EC. When Gore lost in 2000, he was clearly the favorite of the people by 5 million votes. No one can tell me that this is fair or representative. What if the delta was 20 million or more? Would that outrage be enough to fix this mess?
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#13 cmk

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 10:46 AM

View PostSinan, on 14 April 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

There is no substance to the argument that a states interests should somehow trump those of the people.

You may not recognize or accept those arguments, but that doesn't automatically make them non-substantive.

View PostSinan, on 14 April 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

When Gore lost in 2000, he was clearly the favorite of the people by 5 million votes. No one can tell me that this is fair or representative.

What I can tell you is that we do not know who would have won in a straight non-EC election because we didn't have one. The "popular vote" is about as meaningful as adding up the scores from all the games in a best-of-seven series and deciding the winner on that basis -- it's invalid because the scores of the individual contests would be different if it were known that this is how the tally would be taken.

View PostSinan, on 14 April 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

Would that outrage be enough to fix this mess?

No amount of outrage will fix the "mess" -- only a constitutional amendment.
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#14 Sinan

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:53 PM

cmk.

It is true that outrage will not fix the EC and that only an amendment will undo the damage it causes. But the impetus for the amendment to carry will have to be rooted in outrage especially in the more populous states where massive numbers of voters are basically meaningless to the outcomes. A state is nothing more than a political creation of the people and the nation usually with a history that includes vested interests lobbying for and succeeding in setting boundaries to protect their interests. These same interests control state politics today making a sham of democracy and leading us into an ever increasing structure based upon oligarchy. Here is an interesting study that just came out making the case that America is indeed an oligarchy and not a democracy.

http://www.commondre...view/2014/04/14

To a federalist in 1790, this system made sense because each state was indeed formed by special interests and run by the elites to further those interests. Democracy was still an untested and dangerous idea especially to a ruling class that understood the wide gap in education between themselves and the people. Today, the case for increased federalism is made by appealing to the very same interests that drove the founders to create a federalist state rather than a democracy. Trumped up notions of the primacy of states over the people give cover to what is really going on which is that it is far easier and cheaper to control a state than it is a nation. We are first and foremost citizens of a nation. The political posturing that props up the allegiance to states rather than the more inclusive national identity is a strategy that works for all types of special interests. Today, since the majority of states have very few people compared to the larger states, these forces can dictate to the rest of us and do so constantly. A farmer in Iowa has the same farming goals as a farmer in California. One gets slobbered over every 4 years and the other is ignored despite being the breadbasket of the nation. As a person working in telecoms, I see population trends because every one of my clients has to provide POTs to every household in their service area in various parts of rural America. Rural America is dying, it is losing people and jobs. People are moving to urban centers and this will not change, it will only increase. That will leave the ever dwindling stragglers with even more power as compared to urban areas which will ultimately drive a wedge into our politics that could become very violent. The only way to avoid it is to address it and do it fairly and uniformly. I propose doing away with the EC for starters. That would wake up the rural states to make them realize they are now outliers and not the only "real" Americans. It might even make them reasonable if I dare to dream. I say that would be progress.
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#15 J-CA

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 03:32 PM

View PostSinan, on 14 April 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

It is true that outrage will not fix the EC and that only an amendment will undo the damage it causes. But the impetus for the amendment to carry will have to be rooted in outrage especially in the more populous states where massive numbers of voters are basically meaningless to the outcomes.
Seems like you fix that with proportional assignment of EC votes, which does not require an amendment.

View PostSinan, on 14 April 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

... Rural America is dying, it is losing people and jobs. People are moving to urban centers and this will not change, it will only increase. That will leave the ever dwindling stragglers with even more power as compared to urban areas which will ultimately drive a wedge into our politics that could become very violent. The only way to avoid it is to address it and do it fairly and uniformly. I propose doing away with the EC for starters. That would wake up the rural states to make them realize they are now outliers and not the only "real" Americans. It might even make them reasonable if I dare to dream. I say that would be progress.
Actually the vast majority of the EC seats are assigned based on population. I think that the two bonus votes for being a state is not entirely unreasonable.
Representative democracy is not and should not be simply an aggregation of votes that results in everything with majority support becoming law in a heartbeat. I think the US Senate is a far bigger problem than the electoral college ever will be.

I like how your model for preventing "violent" conflict involves showing people that already feel threatened by being marginalized that they are really, really, marginalized. Sort of feels backwards to me.
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#16 cmk

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 04:05 PM

View PostSinan, on 14 April 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

It is true that outrage will not fix the EC and that only an amendment will undo the damage it causes.

Though some may not prefer the method, I don't really see that it causes any "damage," personally.

View PostSinan, on 14 April 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

But the impetus for the amendment to carry will have to be rooted in outrage especially in the more populous states where massive numbers of voters are basically meaningless to the outcomes.

Except that, ironically, they don't matter. You need to convince the states that benefit from the current system that it is in their interests to change it, not the states that (you believe) would benefit from an amendment.

View PostSinan, on 14 April 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

Trumped up notions of the primacy of states over the people give cover to what is really going on which is that it is far easier and cheaper to control a state than it is a nation.

And yet, if true, that also means democracy can be truer at the state level than at the national level. And of course that's widely observed everywhere: the more local the setting, the more control. This is in fact an argument in favor of states.

View PostSinan, on 14 April 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

We are first and foremost citizens of a nation.

That's your opinion, but it's not mine. I very often much more identify with my state than I do with my country. I've even remarked that being able to live in Vermont makes putting up with what the US has been like lately a lot easier.

Your bold declaration also doesn't match too well with the history of the country.

View PostSinan, on 14 April 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

The political posturing that props up the allegiance to states rather than the more inclusive national identity is a strategy that works for all types of special interests.

Actually, that statement is what strikes me as political posturing. I mean, really, who are you to decide with what others identify?

View PostSinan, on 14 April 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

A farmer in Iowa has the same farming goals as a farmer in California.

Does he? Really? I think if you dig a little bit you'll find that's not really as much the case as you think.

View PostSinan, on 14 April 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

Rural America is dying, it is losing people and jobs. People are moving to urban centers and this will not change, it will only increase. That will leave the ever dwindling stragglers with even more power as compared to urban areas which will ultimately drive a wedge into our politics that could become very violent. The only way to avoid it is to address it and do it fairly and uniformly. I propose doing away with the EC for starters. That would wake up the rural states to make them realize they are now outliers and not the only "real" Americans. It might even make them reasonable if I dare to dream. I say that would be progress.

So you propose that the states who likely benefit most from the current system give that up, basically for no reason other than you think they should. On top of that, you express this view in a demeaning manner dripping with contempt, effectively confirming in their eyes exactly why the existing mechanisms should remain. Do you think this approach is likely to be effective?

ETA: A lot of smaller states aren't nearly as rural as you seem to think they are. They may lack truly huge urban centers, but most have at least one or two good-sized cities. They aren't all just the redneck hicks you seem to despise so much.
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#17 indy

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 04:50 PM

What I don't get is that the country, by and large, seems to be going in all the directions that most liberals like: a minority president likely followed by a woman president, gay marriage, universally available health insurance, etc. Yet every time I turn around another one is bitching about something new.

You'd think, wrongly apparently, that winning the culture wars would be enough for a respite.

#18 Traveler

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 07:42 AM

Its the economic war that liberals rail against. Who cares what type of sex you can have when you are broke? And that is where the middle and lower classes are headed.
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Posted 15 April 2014 - 07:46 AM

View Postcmk, on 14 April 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

No amount of outrage will fix the "mess" -- only a constitutional amendment.

Actually, an interstate compact to allocate their electoral votes to the candidate who receives the most popular votes will also do the trick.
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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:01 AM

There is actually a pretty strong movement headed that way. OTOH, PA tried to pull off the same thing for its electoral votes to be proportional now. In this case, this is the very opposite, as it did NOT contemplate an interstate agreement with other states. That seems dead for the moment. But the concept is interesting. Again, I don't see how the little states will go along. But seeing as they are little and generally equally split between red and blue, they could be ignored and you would get more airplay in CA. BTW, PA doesnt have much airplay now either. Its too late in the primaries to make any difference.
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