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Obamacare & Healthcare in America (was Tales of People Screwed by...)


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#3461 baw1064

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 08:57 PM

View PostAnBr, on 19 October 2019 - 08:27 PM, said:

Haven't you heard? Gubmint IS the problem!
So Trump is, by definition, part of the problem!
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#3462 pnwguy

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 11:00 PM

View PostAnBr, on 19 October 2019 - 08:27 PM, said:

Haven't you heard? Gubmint IS the problem!
No only Democrat Gubmint is the problem. When the GOP runs things, it's the Hand of God ruling His people into righteousness. Praise be that the Chosen One is the mighty ruler of the nation.
"All glory to the HypnoTrump, or else..."

"It all makes sense when you remind yourself that the GOP is no longer a political party but turned into an organized crime family"

"I hope to live long enough that the name Trump is reviled as much as the name Hitler or Stalin"

#3463 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 11:28 AM

View PostAnBr, on 19 October 2019 - 08:27 PM, said:

Haven't you heard? Gubmint IS the problem!

Then switch to spearmint. All chewing-gum was spearmint in my Blighty childhood.
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

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#3464 AnBr

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 09:13 PM

"Health care debate shows the lies I told for insurance companies about 'Medicare for All' worked"
“Trump’s a stupid man’s idea of a smart person, a poor man’s idea of a rich person & a weak man’s idea of a strong man.”

— Fran Lebowitz


“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#3465 LFC

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 03:16 PM

View PostRich T Bikkies, on 20 October 2019 - 11:28 AM, said:

Then switch to spearmint. All chewing-gum was spearmint in my Blighty childhood.

That's because you grew up in the U.K., a socialist hellhole.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#3466 LFC

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 02:15 PM

Vox has a review of Elizabeth Warren's plans on how to pay for Medicare for All. There may be some holes but it's clearly been well thought out, was developed with true expert opinions, and isn't completely out to lunch. The last part of the piece then brings up the political realities of passing. Since any change that benefits people over the healthcare industry will be fought tooth and nail you can bet it would be ugly.

Quote

On Friday, Sen. Elizabeth Warren released her Medicare-for-all financing plan. After being attacked at the last Democratic debate for refusing to admit Medicare-for-all would require middle-class tax hikes, Warren wants to show that you can pay for the plan without them.

And you can. Maybe.

Warren’s financing plan has two parts. The first describes her approach to estimating the costs of Medicare-for-all. The second lays out the way she pays for the plan without, in her words, “one penny” of middle-class tax increases.

As befits Warren’s wonkish, master-of-plans persona, she’s relied in both cases on top experts. Her cost estimate was conducted by Don Berwick, the former director of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services; and Simon Johnson, the former chief economist at the World Bank. Her tax plan was developed by Betsey Stevenson, who served as chief economist at the Labor Department; Mark Zandi, the head economist at Moody’s Analytics; and Johnson. Helpfully, her plan is backed up by two detailed appendices laying bare, and arguing for, the assumptions Warren makes.

So let’s take them in turn.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#3467 AnBr

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 04:37 PM


“Trump’s a stupid man’s idea of a smart person, a poor man’s idea of a rich person & a weak man’s idea of a strong man.”

— Fran Lebowitz


“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#3468 JackD

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 04:58 PM

Krugman summarized the plan nicely: serious and not likely to happen.

#3469 AnBr

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 05:20 PM

Which is why it probably makes more sense at this point to expand the ACA and add a public option. We need to get there in a way that brings a large enough majority towards being able to make it happen.
“Trump’s a stupid man’s idea of a smart person, a poor man’s idea of a rich person & a weak man’s idea of a strong man.”

— Fran Lebowitz


“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#3470 baw1064

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 09:08 PM

And, get rid of the requirement that employers have to offer health insurance. And also make the value of employer-provided health benefits taxable. I have to pay for health insurance with after tax dollars, shouldn't everybody?
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#3471 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 03 November 2019 - 11:57 AM

Those are two steps and should be taken in that order.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
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"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#3472 Traveler

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 08:09 AM

I don't know why Warren chose to die on this hill. Sure the eventual savings do indeed cover the costs. But you cannot just wipe out a good chunk of the health care industry without a game plan. Which is why AnBr and baw are so dead on. Classic case of the perfect being the enemy of the good. And no surprise, it doesn't poll well in battleground states that matter. Dems are bound to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
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#3473 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 09:25 AM

View PostTraveler, on 04 November 2019 - 08:09 AM, said:

I don't know why Warren chose to die on this hill.

Before worrying about the fight in Congress, you have to first get the Democratic nomination. Remember, though, how it worked out for Obama: campaign on the public option but sacrifice it to get the PPACA.

Warren dithered for a long time before signing onto MFA and I'm pretty sure she did it precisely because nothing is going to matter if she can't line up the left end of the party behind her. Putting out MFA as aspirational come the general election is not going to hurt her then, it would just signal that she's smart enough to know that it's one thing to want a pony and another to think you'll actually get one.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#3474 golden_valley

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 10:49 AM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 04 November 2019 - 09:25 AM, said:

Before worrying about the fight in Congress, you have to first get the Democratic nomination. Remember, though, how it worked out for Obama: campaign on the public option but sacrifice it to get the PPACA.

Warren dithered for a long time before signing onto MFA and I'm pretty sure she did it precisely because nothing is going to matter if she can't line up the left end of the party behind her. Putting out MFA as aspirational come the general election is not going to hurt her then, it would just signal that she's smart enough to know that it's one thing to want a pony and another to think you'll actually get one.

Are voters going to see that she's being aspirational or will they think that their employer based insurance will disappear if she wins?

#3475 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 01:48 PM

View Postgolden_valley, on 04 November 2019 - 10:49 AM, said:

Are voters going to see that she's being aspirational or will they think that their employer based insurance will disappear if she wins?

Remember? Democrat? They're going to believe that their employer based insurance will disappear if Joe Manchin wins. Our national news media will see to that.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#3476 AnBr

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Posted 04 November 2019 - 05:13 PM

View PostTraveler, on 04 November 2019 - 08:09 AM, said:

I don't know why Warren chose to die on this hill. Sure the eventual savings do indeed cover the costs. But you cannot just wipe out a good chunk of the health care industry without a game plan. Which is why AnBr and baw are so dead on. Classic case of the perfect being the enemy of the good. And no surprise, it doesn't poll well in battleground states that matter. Dems are bound to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

The Overton Window has been moving leftward, but needs to be dragged even further left to have a majority willing to support not just MFA, but also the means required to make it a reality. We probably can only get there in stages like I mentioned of starting with adding a public option to the ACA. such phases would help minimize the economic disruption of eliminating the private insurers and make it more palatable to the electorate.
“Trump’s a stupid man’s idea of a smart person, a poor man’s idea of a rich person & a weak man’s idea of a strong man.”

— Fran Lebowitz


“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#3477 LFC

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 06:10 PM

More information on how the medical industry is being weaponized against America's citizens. Patients are for fleecing, nothing more.

Quote

A recent story highlighted Dr Naveen Khan, a 35-year-old radiologist from Southlake, Texas, who had his arm crushed by an all-terrain vehicle. An air ambulance took him to Fort Worth, Texas. The company promptly called him while he was in the hospital to let him know that the brief flight cost a total of $56,603. His insurer paid $11,972, which is about what the flight actually costs, while the air ambulance company billed Dr. Khan for the remaining $44,631, which he would have to pay out of pocket.

Dr. Khan’s bill is one among thousands of extortionate charges from air ambulances. Nationally, the average helicopter bill has now reached $40,000, according to a report by the Government Accountability Office. That is more than double what it was only nine years ago.

It would be tempting to conclude that higher prices are due to a shortage of helicopters or pilots to ferry wounded patients. In fact, the U.S. air-ambulance fleet has doubled in size over the past 15 years.

The laws of economics dictate that when demand is flat and supply increases substantially, prices should go down not up. What is preventing the laws of supply and demand from operating here?

The reason is the emergence of a national oligopoly. After a series of mergers, the air ambulance industry is highly concentrated and controlled by private equity groups. Two thirds of medical helicopters operating in 2015 belonged to three for-profit providers, according to the GAO.

Private equity have been active consolidating the industry, as they have so many other industries. In fact, researchers have argued that keeping hidden monopolies private is part of the attraction of private equity. The helicopter company that transported Dr. Khan was Air Medical Group Holdings, which is owned by the private equity group Kohlberg Kravis and Roberts (KKR). Other private equity groups are also active. American Securities LLC bought Air Methods for $2.5 billion in March 2017.

“It’s the same people who have bought out all the emergency room practices, who’ve bought out all the anesthesiology practices,” said James Gelfand, senior vice president of health policy for the ERISA Industry Committee. He added, “They have a business strategy of finding medical providers who have all the leverage, taking them out of network, and essentially putting a gun to the patient’s head.”

Gouging consumers with surprise bills is how private equity groups operate. According to an article in the Harvard Business Review, “Private equity firms have been buying and growing the specialties that generate a disproportionate share of surprise bills: emergency room physicians, hospitalists, anesthesiologists, and radiologists.”

A study by Stanford University shows that surprise billing has been rapidly rising from about a third of visits in 2010 to almost 43 percent in 2016. Much of this is driven by private equity groups, which are rolling up large parts of the medical industry.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#3478 JackD

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 08:46 PM

The entire medical industry charges what the market will bear. There is no other logic or rationale for their charges.

#3479 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 10:21 PM

View PostJackD, on 14 November 2019 - 08:46 PM, said:

The entire medical industry charges what the market will bear. There is no other logic or rationale for their charges.

And they do it when the patients have literally [1] no alternative other than "die" -- or sometimes not even that. You might as well have some dude stop by your auto wreck, stabilize you until the ambulance arrives, and then hand you a bill for several thousand.

[1] That's old 'literally', not new 'literally' which means what old 'figuratively' did.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#3480 JackD

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 11:07 PM

Why does that footnote piss me off?





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