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The Second Impeachment of Donald J. Trump


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#41 Traveler

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Posted 01 February 2021 - 02:23 PM

Castor? Dude used to be pretty sensible. Only competent one of the three. But he has a long row to hoe.
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#42 LFC

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Posted 01 February 2021 - 03:35 PM

View PostTraveler, on 01 February 2021 - 02:23 PM, said:

Castor? Dude used to be pretty sensible. Only competent one of the three. But he has a long row to hoe.

I had one personal interaction with him where he helped prevent me getting screwed by a county prosecutor cutting a cozy deal with an attorney. (Neighbor kid broke into our house. The prosecutor was going to make it all go away without even so much as introducing himself to us, the victims.) He certainly sounded sensible then. I wonder if he's going to sit quietly and make the argument of the impeachment being unconstitutional even if Trump doesn't want to.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#43 Rue Bella

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Posted 01 February 2021 - 03:47 PM

Quote

But again, that’s not what Trump wants to argue. He wants to say it was all justified.

Not only all justified, but a crime that it did not succeed.

As for his lawyers, Trump really should have good legal representation. Sure, he's guilty, and sure, the senate GOP will not vote to convict, but this is an important trial. The accused should be represented by someone other than America's Buffoon, Rudy 3-eyes.
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#44 HockeyDon

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Posted 01 February 2021 - 03:53 PM

I realize the impeachment is for inciting insurrection. But the very nature of impeachment is a political one, not a matter of law.

Is insurrection against the law?

Doesn't the infamous DOJ memo say a sitting President can't be indicted?

How does the RICO statute play into all this? Wouldn't that just require one person in Trump's organization to be charged?

Asking for a friend... :ph34r:
And there was much rejoicing. Yay.

How can I be expected to distinguish BS from reality when so much of my reality is utter BS?!

#45 golden_valley

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Posted 01 February 2021 - 05:18 PM

View PostHockeyDon, on 01 February 2021 - 03:53 PM, said:

I realize the impeachment is for inciting insurrection. But the very nature of impeachment is a political one, not a matter of law.

Is insurrection against the law?

Doesn't the infamous DOJ memo say a sitting President can't be indicted?

How does the RICO statute play into all this? Wouldn't that just require one person in Trump's organization to be charged?

Asking for a friend... :ph34r:

Here's a whole article from the Atlantic written in the context of the first impeachment. (Kind of shocking that I have to write first impeachment.)

Quote

Those most eager to impeach this president may know their Constitution better, but they recognize that crimes are just easier to explain than old Anglo-American legal jargon. So some are tempted to scour the criminal code for a subsection into which one or the other of Trump’s misadventures can be wedged. The most recent example is the vociferous but ultimately pointless argument over whether opposition research—dirt—on a political opponent is a “thing of value” for purposes of federal election laws.

There are two strong arguments against the idea that the phrase requires criminal behavior: a historical one and a practical one. The history of the phrase “high crimes and misdemeanors” and of how it entered our Constitution establishes beyond serious dispute that it extends far beyond mere criminal conduct. The practical reasoning is in some ways more important: A standard that permitted the removal of presidents only for indictable crimes would leave the nation defenseless against the most dangerous kinds of presidential behavior.



#46 LFC

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Posted 02 February 2021 - 03:33 PM

Sen. Tim Kaine (R-VA) drops his lame-assed resolution to censure Trump.

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Sen. Tim Kaine (D-VA) on Tuesday said that he has dropped his effort on a bipartisan resolution censuring former President Trump, citing lack of support from his colleagues on both sides of the aisle.

Last week, Kaine and Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME) privately floated a bipartisan resolution censuring Trump to their colleagues after most Republicans signaled Trump’s likely acquittal in his second impeachment trial by voting that the Senate impeachment trial is constitutional.

Kaine and Collins viewed the bipartisan censure resolution as another pathway to officially condemn Trump for his incitement of the deadly insurrection at the Capitol earlier this month.

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Kaine said that he decided against filing a motion to censure Trump because the bipartisan effort he and Collins spearheaded failed to gain enough support.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#47 LFC

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Posted 02 February 2021 - 03:45 PM

Buckle up as both sides start increasing their rhetoric. Here is the Democratic description of Trump's offenses.

Quote

Former President Trump “endangered the life of every single Member of Congress, jeopardized the peaceful transition of power and line of succession, and compromised our national security,” the House argued in an impeachment brief filed Tuesday morning that sets the stage for next week’s Senate trial.

The House brought the charge of insurrection against Trump last month, a week after he riled up a violent mob that stormed the Capitol and disrupted Congress’ certification of President Joe Biden’s win. The brief connected Trump’s encouragement of the riot that day to the other ways he attempted to reverse his election losses as his legal challenges failed in court.

“His actions directly threatened the very foundation on which all other political debates and disagreements unfold,” the House said. “They also threatened the constitutional system that protects the fundamental freedoms we cherish.”

The brief warned that if Congress were to allow “Presidents to subvert elections without consequence” it “would encourage the most dangerous of abuses.”

“A President who violently attacks the democratic process has no right to participate in it,” the House said. “Only after President Trump is held to account for his actions can the Nation move forward with unity of purpose and commitment to the Constitution.”


TPM has 5 points about Trump's lawyers statements. One is that they win the Irony Is Dead award.

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“Political hatred has no place in the administration of justice anywhere in America, especially in the Congress of the United States.”

They also managed to sneak in some election lies. If I were the Dems I would pick this up and hammer them loudly and publicly, stating they they were complicit with Trump's sedition and that baseless lies have no place in any trial. Any Republican that tries to defend the lies must be similarly called out. At the end of this the Dems should then go out on a full blitz to every news outlet, talk show, social media, and TV ads that the Republicans claim they want unity but just defended election lies. Shove it up their noses at every turn.

Quote

Trump’s lawyers argue that his pre-insurrection speech — in which he encouraged the Stop the Steal rally-goers to “fight” for the election, and promised he’d be with them in the march to the Capitol — is protected speech under the First Amendment.

The freedom of speech argument also helped them slip in Trump’s voter fraud claims. Trump’s first raft of legal representation reportedly quit over his insistence that they focus their defense on rehashing the claims. I guess the concept of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" is something that they don't want to talk about.

“It is admitted that after the November election, the 45th President exercised his First Amendment right under the Constitution to express his belief that the election results were suspect, since with very few exceptions, under the convenient guise of Covid-19 pandemic ‘safeguards’ states election laws and procedures were changed by local politicians or judges without the necessary approvals from state legislatures,” they wrote.

“Insufficient evidence exists upon which a reasonable jurist could conclude that the 45th President’s statements were accurate or not, and he therefore denies they were false,” they added.


Trump's lawyers also don't want videos shown of the insurrection which Trump incited. I guess showing what actually happened is prejudicial. "My client is accused of murder but you can't show the outcome of the crime!"

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David Schoen, one of the impeachment lawyers ex-President Donald Trump hired at the last minute, on Monday night protested against Democrats’ plan to show videos of the pro-Trump mob’s deadly storming of the Capitol at the Senate impeachment trial next week.

“Does this country really need to see videotapes?” Schoen asked during an interview with Fox News host Sean Hannity. “We know now apparently that [Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA)] and the other managers intend to show videotapes of the riots, people calling in, people being hurt, police officers talking…Why does the country need that now?”

The lawyer then claimed that the violent insurrection on January 6 “has nothing to do with” Trump, despite the former president riling up his supporters that day (and months beforehand) with lies claiming the election was “stolen” from him, telling them to walk to the Capitol and “show strength,” then refusing to condemn the attack as it was erupting.

“The country doesn’t need to just watch videos of riots and unrest. We need to heal now. We need to move forward,” Schoen said on Monday, invoking Republicans’ go-to deflection when confronted with Trump’s incitement of the siege.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#48 LFC

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Posted 03 February 2021 - 12:27 PM

Here's some interesting support for convicting Trump.

Quote

More than 370 Democratic congressional aides have signed onto an open letter appealing to senators to convict former President Donald Trump for inciting a violent “attack on our workplace” that threatened the peaceful transition of power and left one of their co-workers dead.

“On January 6, the former President broke America’s 230-year legacy of the peaceful transition of power when he incited a mob to disrupt the counting of electoral college votes,” the staffers wrote in the letter first obtained by The New York Times. “The attack on our workplace was inspired by lies told by the former president and others about the results of the election in a baseless, months-longe effort to reject votes lawfully cast by the American people.”

The public appeal from the aides lays out, through firsthand accounts, how many of its signatories had sheltered under desks, barricaded themselves in offices or watched on TV as their own bosses and colleagues “fled for their lives.”

“As congressional employees, we don’t have a vote on whether to convict Donald J. Trump for his role in inciting the violent attack at the Capitol, but our senators do,” they wrote. “And for our sake, and the sake of the country, we ask that they vote to convict the former president and bar him from ever holding office again.”

The letter comes days before the Senate’s impeachment trial and included among its signatories press secretaries, schedulers, committee staff members and advisers from the House and Senate. They included Drew Hammill, a deputy chief of staff for Speaker Nancy Pelosi, as well as communications aides closely associated with lawmakers who have been involved with Trump’s impeachments.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#49 LFC

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Posted 04 February 2021 - 11:00 AM

Aaaaand here comes the clown car. In Trump's formal answer to his impeachment his lawyers misspelled "United States." I ... can't ... even.

https://twitter.com/...9989385218?s=20
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#50 LFC

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Posted 04 February 2021 - 05:30 PM

Oh puh-leaze let this idiot show up to answer questions.

Quote

House impeachment managers want former President Donald Trump to put his money where his mouth his, inviting the Mar-a-Lago resident to testify at his own impeachment trial next week.

In a letter to the former president, Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-MD), the lead House impeachment manager, offers Trump the opportunity to “provide testimony under oath” given that he has disputed “factual allegations” about his conduct leading to the Jan. 6 Capitol insurrection attempt and on the day of.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#51 golden_valley

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Posted 04 February 2021 - 09:58 PM

View PostLFC, on 04 February 2021 - 05:30 PM, said:


He'll want to. His lawyers will say Nooooo! and make up all sorts of reasons why he shouldn't. So he won't show up, but it would fun to watch if he did.

#52 JackD

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Posted 04 February 2021 - 10:18 PM

His lawyers said, "no".

#53 LFC

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Posted 08 February 2021 - 01:25 PM

Republican Senators are whining about Dear Leader being held for his incitement of an insurrection. For elected officials who swore to uphold the Constitution they don't seem to know a whole lot about it.

Quote

Several Republican senators on Sunday framed former President Trump’s second impeachment trial as an unconstitutional partisan attack from Democrats two days before the trial is scheduled to begin.

Last week, Trump’s legal team swiftly rejected the House impeachment managers’ request for the former president to testify at his own impeachment trial.

In a letter to the former president last week, Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-MD), the lead House impeachment manager, gave Trump a chance to “provide testimony under oath” after disputing “many factual allegations set forth in the article of impeachment” against the former president for “incitement of insurrection.”


Several of them are quoted but here's top sycophant Little Lindsey showing two things; first, he also doesn't grasp what's actually in the Constitution and second, he's happy to lie his ass off by inappropriately narrowing Trump's words and actions to just a few hours before the Republican Insurrection of 2021.

Quote

Trump loyalist Graham, who said that Trump “needs to understand that his actions were the problem” hours after the deadly insurrection at the Capitol last month despite his months-long crusade of egging on the former president’s bogus voter fraud claims, told CBS that he now doesn’t think Trump committed a crime.

“I mean, the House is impeaching him under the theory that his speech created a riot,” Graham said, before going on to conveniently ignore how he and other Trump loyalists espoused the former president’s false claims of Democrats trying to “steal” the election for months leading up to the Capitol riots. “When you look at the facts, many people had already planned to attack the Capitol before he ever spoke.”

Graham went on to slam impeachment as a “very bad idea” because a president has never been impeached outside of office. Graham also accused Democrats of deploying an “unconstitutional exercise.”

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#54 LFC

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Posted 08 February 2021 - 01:27 PM

One well known conservative lawyer wrote an op-ed rejecting the argument that you can't try Trump now that he's out of office.

Quote

Chuck Cooper, one of the biggest Republican lawyers in Washington, rejected on Sunday GOP senators’ claim outlined in Sen. Rand Paul’s resolution (R-KY) that holding an impeachment trial for ex-President Donald Trump is unconstitutional because he is no longer in office.

Cooper laid out his rebuttal in an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal, where he argued that an official already needs to be out of office, whether through conviction or otherwise, in order for the Senate to invoke its constitutional right to disqualify that official from election.

“Thus a vote by the Senate to disqualify can be taken only after the officer has been removed and is by definition a former officer,” he wrote. “Given that the Constitution permits the Senate to impose the penalty of permanent disqualification only on former officeholders, it defies logic to suggest that the Senate is prohibited from trying and convicting former officeholders.”

The lawyer urged the senators who had voted in favor of Paul’s resolution to “reconsider their view and judge the former president’s misconduct on the merits.”

Cooper’s op-ed joins the chorus of constitutional experts who have refuted Republicans’ argument.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#55 golden_valley

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Posted 08 February 2021 - 01:40 PM

View PostLFC, on 08 February 2021 - 01:27 PM, said:

One well known conservative lawyer wrote an op-ed rejecting the argument that you can't try Trump now that he's out of office.

Ahh what does he know? He's just a sell out, clearly not loyal.

Seriously though, his opinion won't make a difference to most of the Republican Senators. I have zero hope that a sufficient number of them will hold the integrity of American democracy at the front of their decision making process. They'll sniff the wind of their constituents back home and worry about being primaried. There will be no conviction.

#56 LFC

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Posted 08 February 2021 - 01:56 PM

Trump's legal problems from inciting an insurrection may not end with impeachment.

Quote

While the Senate considers whether Donald Trump’s incitement of the Capitol mob is a “high crime and misdemeanor” worthy of impeachment, he and his associates may be on the hook for separate, criminal prosecutions.

Charging a former president would be an explosive move by the Justice Department, which refrains from prosecuting sitting presidents. Yet it has no internal prohibition against charging a former president once he’s out of office.

Based on the publicly available facts, a look at what Trump and his allies may have expected the Jan. 6 rally to achieve could be warranted, former federal prosecutors told TPM. Some raised the possibility that Trump-world could be exposed to a seditious conspiracy prosecution. Then, there are the many failed election-reversal plots that came before Jan. 6, which involved the former President and his associates leaning on local election officials and demanding that states “find” votes. Investigators might find that those efforts violated various election laws.

At the very least, legal experts say, the former President and those who facilitated the maneuvers aimed at disrupting the results should be taking seriously the threat of criminal investigations.

“They better be investing in some very competent criminal defense counsel,” Justin Levitt, a Loyola Marymount election law professor, told TPM.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#57 LFC

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Posted 08 February 2021 - 04:40 PM

Looks like Trump's second string legal team is failing right up front. Not that it will matter since the overwhelming number of Senate Republicans really would refuse to convict even if he had shot somebody on Fifth Ave.

Quote

A U.S. law professor who studies impeachment says former President Donald Trump’s lawyers misrepresented his research in a brief laying out arguments they will make at his U.S. Senate impeachment trial that starts on Tuesday.

Michigan State University law professor Brian Kalt, a leading impeachment scholar, told Reuters in an email on Monday that his research was “definitely not” accurately described in the 78-page document.

“They didn’t have to be disingenuous and misleading like this,” Kalt later said on Twitter, adding that “in several places, they misrepresent what I wrote quite badly.”

Kalt’s name is mentioned 15 times in Trump’s pretrial brief, despite Kalt last month having signed an open letter from 150 legal experts that explained why the impeachment proceeding against Trump is supported by the U.S. Constitution.

Kalt said he was especially surprised to see a law review article he wrote cited as supporting the following claim by Trump’s lawyers: “When a President is no longer in office, the objective of an impeachment ceases.”

Kalt said in an email that the section of his article cited by Trump “actually says the opposite.”

Bruce Castor Jr., one of Trump’s two lead lawyers, did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#58 LFC

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Posted 08 February 2021 - 06:00 PM

Even more second stringy than reported above. And typos again. This seems to be a recurring theme with Trump lawyers.

Quote

The legal team representing former United States president Donald Trump has filed its legal brief ahead of Tuesday's start of the Senate impeachment trial, and according to legal experts, it is filled with "falsehoods," "mischaracterized" work, "flat-out misrepresentations," quotes from an internet conspiracy site, and typos.

Former Department of Defense Special Counsel Ryan Goodman, now a Chaired Professor NYU Law, puts it bluntly: "Trump brief is filled with falsehoods that Republican Senators personally know to be untrue."

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#59 golden_valley

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Posted 08 February 2021 - 09:12 PM

View PostLFC, on 08 February 2021 - 06:00 PM, said:

Even more second stringy than reported above. And typos again. This seems to be a recurring theme with Trump lawyers.

It's a sign of arrogance. They can put up any old crap no matter badly written and proofread because they know Trump will not be convicted by Senate Republicans.

#60 LFC

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Posted 09 February 2021 - 02:02 PM

"The January Exception." [chef's kiss]

Quote

Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-MD), the leader of the House managers’ team, is tackling the initial arguments in favor of Trump’s impeachment being constitutional. He presented a calendar showing the implications of validating Trump teams’ theory, which Raskin said would allow for presidents to commit high crimes and misdemeanors at the end of their terms’ without consequence.

“The January exception is an invitation to our founders’ worst nightmare,” Raskin said.

Posted Image

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer





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