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The Second Impeachment of Donald J. Trump


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#1 LFC

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 10:51 AM

I figure there should be a new thread for the historic second impeachment of a single U.S. president.

Pelosi said she's ready to forward the article of impeachment to the Senate on Monday.

The timeline for the trial is still unclear. McConnell is trying to push it to mid-February. To be honest I don't think that sounds all that unreasonable, especially with the difficulty Trump is having actually retaining counsel. He has managed to find one to create his defense team, Butch Bowers of South Carolina.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#2 andydp

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 10:54 AM

I hope Butch asks for money up front.
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If you've got public schools paid for by taxpayers, you're in a socialist nation. If you have public roads paid for by taxpayers, socialist nation. If you've got public defense (police, fire, military, coast guard) paid for by tax dollars, socialist nation. If you're in a nation that has nationalized or localized delivery of services that are not paid for by users alone, you're in a socialist nation- the only question is how socialist. As I see it, we pay the military pay to protect the shipping lanes for our fuel needs which makes us very socialist. In a capitalist nation, the people supplying the oil would pay for their own defense force.
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“I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.”

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(Select anyone who gets blind loyalty from followers/voters) "...is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life."(Manchurian candidate)



"I can't go out because of the virus" sounds whiny and boring. I'm going with: "I've sworn an oath of solitude until the pestilence is purged from the lands." because it sounds more valiant and heroic. As a bonus, people might think you're carrying a sword.

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Its theorized if you put enough monkeys together with typewriters, eventually they'll write Shakespeare. But first, they write Trump speeches.

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What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.

Donald Trump

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Pres Donald J Trump, Joint Base Andrews 1/20/21


I get it. They had a guy ratf**k the post office. They filled the courts with hacks. They spent a ton of money. They filed so many lawsuits. They even started a riot ! It’s so unfair that they went to all that trouble and still lost. Anonymous

#3 LFC

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 11:06 AM

View Postandydp, on 22 January 2021 - 10:54 AM, said:

I hope Butch asks for money up front.

I kinda' hope he doesn't. (Was that mean of me to say?)
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#4 golden_valley

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 11:10 AM

I'd think Trump wants a trial quick before the full investigations are completed. The dribs and drabs of information coming out now will be more fully fleshed out and perhaps more damning by mid Feb. Seems risky. Maybe McConnell thinks that is okay for Trump to undergo that risk.

#5 Bact PhD

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 11:49 AM

View Postgolden_valley, on 22 January 2021 - 11:10 AM, said:

I'd think Trump wants a trial quick before the full investigations are completed. The dribs and drabs of information coming out now will be more fully fleshed out and perhaps more damning by mid Feb. Seems risky. Maybe McConnell thinks that is okay for Trump to undergo that risk.
Hmmm. does that old saying about giving someone enough rope apply here?
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#6 LFC

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 03:15 PM

Here's a (paywalled) look at Trump's defense lawyer. He's a Republican's Republican on the issue of voting law.

Quote

Remember Mark Sanford? If you were a Golden Duke: Duke of Dukes voter this last time around, you most certainly will.

The lawyer that Trump just tapped — reportedly on Sen. Lindsey Graham’s (R-SC) recommendation — to serve as his attorney for the impending impeachment trial in the Senate once represented the former Gov. Mark Sanford, coincidently when lawmakers were thinking about impeaching him for fleeing the country to see his Argentinian mistress back in 2009.

Butch Bowers has also worked for other high profile politicians and appears to be more universally respected by Republicans than at least one of Trump’s last impeachment attorneys, Alan Dershowitz, who was under intense scrutiny at the time for his ties to the late convicted child sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. Trump’s lawyers from the last impeachment trial reportedly were uninterested in getting their hands dirty with a second go-around, according to the Columbia Post and Courier.

Bowers is a longtime Republican lawyer with a background in election law, which may well be the meat of the trial if and when the impeachment article makes its way to the Senate. Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) announced about an hour ago that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) intends to send the article to the Senate on Monday. Trump was impeached by the House last Wednesday for inciting the violence that led to the Capitol insurrection earlier this month, all part of his broader failed crusade to overturn the results of the election.

Trump’s decision to hire Bowers has been largely interpreted as a sign that Trump intends to take this impeachment more seriously than the last, perhaps due to his hope to run for president again in 2024, and the possibility that he could be barred from doing so if convicted. Here’s some things to know about Bowers, the soon-to-be national figure, per Politico and the Post and Courier:
  • Bowers also represented former Republican Gov. Nikki Haley when she faced ethics charges for illegal lobbying as a member of the South Carolina House.
  • He has weighty election law experience, serving as special counsel for voting matters in President George W. Bush’s DOJ and as counsel in Florida during the late Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) presidential bid in 2008.
  • He was once involved with the South Carolina Election Commission’s lawsuits over voter ID laws and represented the South Carolina GOP in its 2020 suit over the lack of a presidential primary in the state.
  • Another indication of his voting rights leanings: back in 2013 he represented former North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory when the DOJ was suing the state for its discriminatory election laws.
  • He’s done legal work for South Carolina Gov. Henry McMaster, a close friend of Trump’s, in a legal fight over excessive campaign contributions.

We’ll be covering the ins and outs of impeachment as Senate Democrats juggle the Biden administration’s Cabinet confirmations next week.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#7 LFC

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 03:17 PM

The argument that post-presidential impeachment is unconstitutional, as pushed by continuing Trump sycophant Little Lindsey, is being shot down by multiple actual constitutional scholars.

Quote

Republicans senators are beginning to coalesce around a new talking point: impeaching former President Donald Trump is now unconstitutional because he has left office.

“I think it’s obvious that the post-presidential impeachment has never occurred in the history of the country for a reason: that it’s unconstitutional, that it sets a bad precedent for the presidency and it continues to divide the nation,” Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) told reporters Friday.

Constitutional scholars of all stripes are dismissing that argument.

“I don’t buy that argument as anything other than an argument of convenience (e.g., looking for an excuse to avoid what should be easy and seemed politically hard),” Justin Levitt, a constitutional law professor at Loyola Law School, told TPM in an email.

Experts TPM spoke with focused on two primary points: the possibility to bar a convicted person from holding office again, and the historical precedents at play.

“If it were unconstitutional to finish impeachment proceedings for a former official, then Congress would never be able to ban officials from future office: the subject official would just resign moments before the Senate vote,” Levitt said. “In order to give meaning to the constitutional text, the official can’t control that process of disqualification for serious misconduct. Which means it has to apply to former officials as well.”

The over 150 constitutional law scholars who signed a letter affirming the constitutionality of impeaching a former president came to the same conclusion, calling the prohibition from future office clause an “important deterrent against future misconduct” for former officials.

They also argue in the letter that the Framers were singularly concerned about a “demagogue” who could rise to power and overthrow the republican government. The Framers knew, the scholars wrote, that such a person’s power and influence doesn’t evaporate just because he’s left office. He could rise again.

“The Framers devised the disqualification power to guard against that possibility, and would surely disagree that a person who sought to overthrow our democracy could not be disqualified from holding a future office of the United States because the plot reached its crescendo too close to the end of his or her term,” they wrote.

Despite Graham’s assertion, there’s also some historical precedent to work from here.

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#8 LFC

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 04:57 PM

Members of the former Trump administration are allegedly talking to McConnell about voting for conviction. Republicans seem to be trying to find the best way to neutralize Trump from being a political force in 2024.

Quote

Several influential Republicans around Washington D.C., including some former Trump administration officials, are reportedly lobbying Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY) to convict former President Donald Trump at his second impeachment trial.

Sources tell CNN's Michael Warren and Jamie Gangel that former members of Trump's own administration are telling McConnell that they don't want to see their former boss run for office ever again.

Although McConnell would also like to see Trump permanently leave the political scene in the wake of this month's deadly riots at the United States Capitol building, he's not yet sure whether convicting the president is the best way to finish the job.

"Mitch said to me he wants Trump gone," one GOP member of Congress claimed. "It is in his political interest to have him gone. It is in the GOP interest to have him gone. The question is, do we get there?"

Although the odds of Trump getting convicted are still slim, one GOP source tells Warren and Gangel that the party believes it cannot survive long term unless it takes Trump totally out of the picture.

"Trump created a cult of personality that is hard to dismantle," said a former GOP official. "Conviction could do that."

" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#9 golden_valley

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 06:33 PM

Quote

"Trump created a cult of personality that is hard to dismantle," said a former GOP official. "Conviction could do that."

Or give them a martyr "Remember the Steal! Then they canceled him!" as the battle cry and motivator.

#10 JackD

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 08:03 PM

But someone will have to take his place as the chief snake oil salesmen and it's doubtful they have the talent.

#11 andydp

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 08:27 AM

Here's something else for the impeachment.

I forget who said it first and where it was posted, but they were right. There was a hidden agenda.

Trump planned to oust acting AG to overturn Georgia election results: report

Trump reportedly planned to replace then-acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen with Jeffrey Clark, a lawyer at the Justice Department, in an effort to apply pressure to Georgia politicians to overturn the results of the race there. Rosen had refused to back Trump's disputed claims that voter fraud had cost him the election, drawing the president's ire.

Trump planned to oust acting AG to overturn Georgia election results: report (msn.com)
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Rev Martin Luther King Jr.

Obamacare took my guns away and put me in a FEMA reeducation camp
Anonymous

If you've got public schools paid for by taxpayers, you're in a socialist nation. If you have public roads paid for by taxpayers, socialist nation. If you've got public defense (police, fire, military, coast guard) paid for by tax dollars, socialist nation. If you're in a nation that has nationalized or localized delivery of services that are not paid for by users alone, you're in a socialist nation- the only question is how socialist. As I see it, we pay the military pay to protect the shipping lanes for our fuel needs which makes us very socialist. In a capitalist nation, the people supplying the oil would pay for their own defense force.
DC Coronata

“I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.”

Margaret Thatcher


(Select anyone who gets blind loyalty from followers/voters) "...is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life."(Manchurian candidate)



"I can't go out because of the virus" sounds whiny and boring. I'm going with: "I've sworn an oath of solitude until the pestilence is purged from the lands." because it sounds more valiant and heroic. As a bonus, people might think you're carrying a sword.

FB posting


Its theorized if you put enough monkeys together with typewriters, eventually they'll write Shakespeare. But first, they write Trump speeches.

FB Posting



Calumny is only the noise of madmen. — Diogenes


When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff. Marcus Tullius Cicero


What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.

Donald Trump

"... I will tell you that the future of this country has never been better."
Pres Donald J Trump, Joint Base Andrews 1/20/21


I get it. They had a guy ratf**k the post office. They filled the courts with hacks. They spent a ton of money. They filed so many lawsuits. They even started a riot ! It’s so unfair that they went to all that trouble and still lost. Anonymous

#12 LFC

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 11:19 AM

Impeachment is too light a punishment.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#13 LFC

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 08:06 PM

Republicans from the Treason Caucus are already starting up again. Here's flaming asshole Ron Johnson (R-WItless Protection) trying to trade dropping the impeachment hearing for the constitutional duty to review and approve Biden's cabinet appointees. (Remember when most were approved without drama? Republicans changed all that. Now doing your duty takes a back seat in a parked car 5 miles away to playing politics.)

Quote

enator Ron Johnson (R-WI) has suggested that the Senate may not confirm President Joe Biden's cabinet nominees if Democrats proceed with an impeachment trial for former President Donald Trump.

Biden's cabinet picks need to be confirmed by the Senate. Trump is due to stand trial before the body following his impeachment by the House of Representatives in the wake of the deadly Capitol riot.

"Democrats can't have it both ways: an unconstitutional impeachment trial & Senate confirmation of the Biden admin's national security team," Johnson tweeted on Thursday.

"They need to choose between being vindictive or staffing the administration to keep the nation safe. What will it be: revenge or security?

"I believe an impeachment trial of a former president is unconstitutional and would set a very dangerous precedent.

"There is no provision in the Constitution for holding such a trial over a former president who is now a private citizen. Where would we get the authority to do so?"


The man who just said he'd willingly refuse to do his constitutional duty is now a constitutional scholar. What a moron.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#14 golden_valley

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Posted 24 January 2021 - 01:44 PM

View PostLFC, on 23 January 2021 - 08:06 PM, said:

Republicans from the Treason Caucus are already starting up again. Here's flaming asshole Ron Johnson (R-WItless Protection) trying to trade dropping the impeachment hearing for the constitutional duty to review and approve Biden's cabinet appointees. (Remember when most were approved without drama? Republicans changed all that. Now doing your duty takes a back seat in a parked car 5 miles away to playing politics.)




The man who just said he'd willingly refuse to do his constitutional duty is now a constitutional scholar. What a moron.

Why not just end elections and let competing armies battle it out on Capitol Mall? That's sort of what we saw on Jan 6 anyway and a large minority of Americans thought that was just fine.

#15 JackD

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Posted 24 January 2021 - 10:44 PM

The solution to Johnson is eliminating the filibuster and telling him to go pound sand.

#16 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 25 January 2021 - 09:16 AM

View PostJackD, on 24 January 2021 - 10:44 PM, said:

The solution to Johnson is eliminating the filibuster and telling him to go pound sand.

Sounds good to me. What's the solution to Boris Johnson? Buggered if I know!
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#17 LFC

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Posted 25 January 2021 - 10:03 AM

Oooooh, Andy!

Fauci Says Immunity from Trump Requires Two Doses of Impeachment
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#18 LFC

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Posted 25 January 2021 - 12:10 PM

View PostLFC, on 22 January 2021 - 03:17 PM, said:

The argument that post-presidential impeachment is unconstitutional, as pushed by continuing Trump sycophant Little Lindsey, is being shot down by multiple actual constitutional scholars.

Despite little actual backing from actual legal scholars the Senate Treason Caucus appears to be all in on the excuse that you can't impeach anybody once they've left office. I guess they really have nothing left. It's not like they can remotely defend that he didn't incite the insurrection plus so many of them are co-conspirators that they surely don't want to bring it up. The usual assholes have jumped aboard.
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer

#19 HockeyDon

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Posted 25 January 2021 - 01:27 PM

View PostRich T Bikkies, on 25 January 2021 - 09:16 AM, said:

Sounds good to me. What's the solution to Boris Johnson? Buggered if I know!

Same thing; eliminate the filibuster and tell him to go pound sand. If you're parliament doesn't have a filibuster, just shrug and move on to the second part.
And there was much rejoicing. Yay.

How can I be expected to distinguish BS from reality when so much of my reality is utter BS?!

#20 baw1064

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Posted 25 January 2021 - 01:52 PM

View PostLFC, on 25 January 2021 - 12:10 PM, said:


And by anybody, you mean "any Republican"?
"strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence"





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