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#1 baw1064

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 05:58 PM

Maybe PNWGuy can give a little more backstory, as I'm a recent transplant to a neighboring state.

In a nutshell, Oregon wanted to institute a cap and trade law on fossil fuels. The Republican contingent couldn't stop the vote, so they fled the state, and apparently have called in right wing militias to threaten violence, which has caused the State Capitol to shut down this weekend.

https://www.thedaily...t-wing-militias
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#2 JackD

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 06:53 PM

A little like what happened in reverse in Wisconsin with Democratic legislators. No militias involved though.

#3 pnwguy

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Posted 22 June 2019 - 10:32 PM

The GOP leadership here claims they didn't seek out the militia groups - they just volunteered their support and sought out the press. I tend to believe that, since we have a fairly reasonable bunch of Republicans historically, and they know better than to be sullied by such extremists. Gun rights is one thing but most of the militia groups despise most forms of government, and legislators are certainly government. Yeah there are some individual kooks but it's not the whole.

I haven't seen the latest polls but I think there is a lot of opposition to the C&T model here, outside of Democrats in Salem. Personally, I think it's the wrong approach and likely to scare more businesses away, when we need to attract more. While it's commendable to get states to jump in when the federal government is feckless and backward thinking, there's only so much one can do locally that makes sense, if it's not done in concert with adjacent states. It's one thing for a state to be harsher with certain pollution regulation (like CA with air quality). If Oregon has stricter water quality laws, we in Oregon will have cleaner water HERE. At least the benefits are local, to justify the costs. But the thing about greenhouse gases is that reducing them is ALWAYS a global benefit uniformly, while the costs are only incurred by OR residents.

I'd rather see carbon taxes, and they could be done in conjunction with each west coast states to not disadvantage any one of them as much.
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#4 J-CA

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 06:32 PM

View Postpnwguy, on 22 June 2019 - 10:32 PM, said:

...
I haven't seen the latest polls but I think there is a lot of opposition to the C&T model here, outside of Democrats in Salem. Personally, I think it's the wrong approach and likely to scare more businesses away, when we need to attract more. While it's commendable to get states to jump in when the federal government is feckless and backward thinking, there's only so much one can do locally that makes sense, if it's not done in concert with adjacent states. It's one thing for a state to be harsher with certain pollution regulation (like CA with air quality). If Oregon has stricter water quality laws, we in Oregon will have cleaner water HERE. At least the benefits are local, to justify the costs. But the thing about greenhouse gases is that reducing them is ALWAYS a global benefit uniformly, while the costs are only incurred by OR residents.

I'd rather see carbon taxes, and they could be done in conjunction with each west coast states to not disadvantage any one of them as much.
The oregon cap and trade system is, as best I can surmise, in fact harmonized with the Californian system (which some Canadian provinces are also participating in) and I don't really see how a carbon tax is superior to a cap and trade system with respect to who bears the costs.
The good thing about a carbon tax is that it generates revenue for the government that can be spent on good things, the good thing about a cap-and-trade system is that the trading system generates assets that businesses depend on for their business model and make it harder for a government to scrap once it has persisted for a reasonable period of time.
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#5 gmat

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Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:25 PM

So, they’re 2 short of a quorum.

Declare 2 of their seats vacant due to whatever (lawyers can figure this shit out), appoint replacements, and tango on.

#6 Traveler

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 08:28 AM

Since Dems pulled that move several times themselves, not sure that sort of precedent will help the lawyers try to make this different enough to win any sort of action.
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#7 gmat

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 10:02 AM

Above my paygrade, for damn sure, but I doubt you could heave a carp in any direction in downtown Salem without hitting 6 lawyers that could figure it out.

(for that matter, when Dems do it, their seats should be vacated as well)

#8 pnwguy

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 01:59 PM

This isn't at all just an Oregon problem, but the irony of Democrats defeating moderate Republicans in more balanced districts, is that the remaining GOP politicians are typically more angry-warrior ideologues in safe districts. So now their GOP leadership in those political bodies are often the extremist flame throwers. On the national level, you can see the same in the 40 seats the Dems gained in the 2018 congressional races. They were mostly all "purple" districts, and the remaining GOP congressmen are now more strongly onboard with the "it's all-out warfare and Trump is our general" mindset.
"All glory to the HypnoTrump, or else..."

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