Jump to content


IRAN


98 replies to this topic

#41 Practical Girl

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 8135 posts
  • LocationAustin TX

Posted 21 June 2019 - 10:22 AM

Even though the whole debacle/story has apparently been confirmed by a couple insiders, I still doubt it. Is as if Trump was deliberately setting up un-needed drama, just to appear Presidential. He'd never do that, right?
Every woman needs a blowtorch.
---Julia Child


--- On September 17, 1787, as Benjamin Franklin was leaving the deliberations of the Constitutional Convention, at Independence Hall, in Philadelphia, a woman called out to him, saying, “Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?”
“A republic,” Franklin said, “if you can keep it.”


--- LFC, on Gorsuch ruling: "Awesome. A Christianist who swore an oath to uphold the laws of the nation and bore false witness when he did it"

--- "Write hard and clear about what hurts"
Ernest Hemingway

#42 pnwguy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1729 posts
  • LocationPortlandia

Posted 21 June 2019 - 10:40 AM

View PostProbabilistic, on 21 June 2019 - 07:36 AM, said:

Posted Image
Pssst...the reason he had to cancel retaliatory air strikes.
"They must be punished, even though I LOVE their Chicken Tikka Masala. We make it at Mar-A-Lago and it's a hit there, BIGLY! We serve it in a taco bowl"
"All glory to the HypnoTrump, or else..."

"It all makes sense when you remind yourself that the GOP is no longer a political party but turned into an organized crime family"

"I hope to live long enough that the name Trump is reviled as much as the name Hitler or Stalin"

#43 Probabilistic

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2143 posts

Posted 21 June 2019 - 10:56 AM

View Postindy, on 21 June 2019 - 10:05 AM, said:

If appearing indecisive and impulsive, and therefore someone nobody can count on for much of anything is presidential, then this president is as presidential as they come.

Agreed. Hence my sarcastic tone. I think he chickened out. Bellicosity is all for show. Although, that is a significant weakness in a President which will continue to be exploited, I'm glad he hasn't yet started a war; another interminable American war in the Middle East without objectives.

As if the Generals when they presented the President with proportionate strike options didn't lay out the likely damage and the risks and types of further Iranian escalation. He gave a go ahead and eventually pulled back. What is proportional and why, and how the others are going to react, should have been discussed before options were chosen for execution.

Minutes before shootout he asks "how many are going to die?". His National Security Advisor and Secretary of State should be fired over this. Even if the President was neglectful in asking the right questions, the NSA, the Sec of State, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs should have introduced those in the discussion. Difficult to believe these were not discussed beforehand.

#44 Probabilistic

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2143 posts

Posted 21 June 2019 - 10:58 AM

View PostPractical Girl, on 21 June 2019 - 10:22 AM, said:

Even though the whole debacle/story has apparently been confirmed by a couple insiders, I still doubt it. Is as if Trump was deliberately setting up un-needed drama, just to appear Presidential. He'd never do that, right?

No he wouldn't. Doesn't go well with the brand. His crowd might get confused. Thoughtfulness equates to effeteness and timidity.

#45 pnwguy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1729 posts
  • LocationPortlandia

Posted 21 June 2019 - 11:20 AM

View PostProbabilistic, on 21 June 2019 - 10:58 AM, said:

Thoughtfulness equates to effeteness and timidity.
Only "The Gut" matters. And his is expanding!
"All glory to the HypnoTrump, or else..."

"It all makes sense when you remind yourself that the GOP is no longer a political party but turned into an organized crime family"

"I hope to live long enough that the name Trump is reviled as much as the name Hitler or Stalin"

#46 D. C. Sessions

    I don't have to pretend to be an adult any more

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9660 posts
  • LocationCentral New Mexico

Posted 21 June 2019 - 12:57 PM

View PostPractical Girl, on 21 June 2019 - 10:22 AM, said:

Even though the whole debacle/story has apparently been confirmed by a couple insiders, I still doubt it. Is as if Trump was deliberately setting up un-needed drama, just to appear Presidential. He'd never do that, right?

Nicely done. You had me right up to the punch line.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#47 indy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9128 posts

Posted 21 June 2019 - 01:12 PM

View PostProbabilistic, on 21 June 2019 - 10:56 AM, said:

His National Security Advisor and Secretary of State should be fired over this. Even if the President was neglectful in asking the right questions, the NSA, the Sec of State, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs should have introduced those in the discussion. Difficult to believe these were not discussed beforehand.

It absolutely was. A casualty assessment is part of EVERY briefing for a military action. I doubt, however, Trump could be pried away from the golf course or perhaps they forgot to put in a cartoon with 150 dead people with Xs for eyes.

ETA: or, of course, he is just lying about it.

#48 Rue Bella

    Emerging from a state of cryogenic denial

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 7881 posts
  • LocationSoCal

Posted 21 June 2019 - 02:13 PM

Assuming he is not impeached before 2020...

This is not the time for Bernie Sanders and his ilk.
This is not the time for pushing far left wing agendas.
This is not the time for 'reparations'.
This IS the time for doing everything possible to remove this 'unstable genius' from office. Everything not focused on this should be pushed to the back burner, no matter how worth-while.
What is wrong with these people? ~ PG

No longer politically correct

#49 Traveler

    Rambling Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 13122 posts
  • LocationPhilly Area

Posted 21 June 2019 - 02:14 PM

That drone they shot down is actually a really big deal. First, the drone was really advanced, and extremely expensive. Apparently, it was not even supposed to be deployed yet. Secondly, the flight tracking suggests it was in international space most of the time, but then headed toward the coast. Supposedly it could fly too high for SAMs, but Iran's Khordad SAM can reach 16 miles up, when its max altitude is 12 miles. So when it was hit that high with momentum toward the coast, no surprise the debris landed in Iran waters. No way the navy would have let them retrieve that in international waters. From this photo, they got a ton of useful debris. The Russians and Chinese are going to be very happy. And the commanders that made that call are going to be shot.

What a cluster. That thing cost 2 F-35s.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."-- Winston Churchill
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices" Voltaire

#50 indy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9128 posts

Posted 21 June 2019 - 02:24 PM

Just for perspective though, the US military breaks shit on accident every day that adds up to more than this.

#51 D. C. Sessions

    I don't have to pretend to be an adult any more

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9660 posts
  • LocationCentral New Mexico

Posted 21 June 2019 - 03:16 PM

Please note that, at least according to Trump [1] we were about to kill 150 people in a response to Iran shooting down a hostile military invasion of their airspace. According to the released tracking plots, the bird was indeed over Iranian waters [3] and heading for shore when shot down.

I would suspect that given Trump's own statements of US intent, Iran is not going to give the benefit of the doubt to any ships or aircraft heading their way.

[1] Safe bet: reality is worse.
[2] Obviously, "it was only a spy plane" is not something the recipient of US drone love can rely upon.
[3] Way less than 20 km out, which is recognized by every country besides the USA. Said USA is not hesitant about asserting its own power much farther than that from the US coastline in the Gulf of Mexico.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#52 D. C. Sessions

    I don't have to pretend to be an adult any more

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9660 posts
  • LocationCentral New Mexico

Posted 21 June 2019 - 05:01 PM

Map (from dw.com):
Posted Image
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#53 D. C. Sessions

    I don't have to pretend to be an adult any more

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9660 posts
  • LocationCentral New Mexico

Posted 21 June 2019 - 07:40 PM

Well, several of us called it: Trump was briefed on the anticipated death count, approved the mission, then for as-yet-unknown reasons [1] decided to scrub it and the story has been changing ever since.


[1] Assuming "Trump" and "reason" belong that close together.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#54 pnwguy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1729 posts
  • LocationPortlandia

Posted 22 June 2019 - 03:21 AM

View PostD. C. Sessions, on 21 June 2019 - 07:40 PM, said:

Well, several of us called it: Trump was briefed on the anticipated death count, approved the mission, then for as-yet-unknown reasons [1] decided to scrub it and the story has been changing ever since.
His bone spurs began to ache, which was a divine sign he wasn't ready for combat.
"All glory to the HypnoTrump, or else..."

"It all makes sense when you remind yourself that the GOP is no longer a political party but turned into an organized crime family"

"I hope to live long enough that the name Trump is reviled as much as the name Hitler or Stalin"

#55 George Rowell

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 836 posts
  • LocationIn Perth now

Posted 22 June 2019 - 07:57 AM

In war I do not believe anything unless both parties agree to it (not even then actually). If I had to chose between Trump and Khamenei I would believe Khamenei.

I had to add the qualification because the Iraqis readily accepted the ridiculously understated death count put out by the 'coalition of the willing' to bolster local moral when it was an order and more above that.
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#56 George Rowell

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 836 posts
  • LocationIn Perth now

Posted 23 June 2019 - 04:45 AM

Yahoo CNN BBC TheGuardian CBS ABC Dailymail Telegraph and nearly every other major news source do not seem to think that Iran recovering the wreckage of the Global Hawk is newsworthy enough to print.
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#57 Probabilistic

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2143 posts

Posted 23 June 2019 - 08:25 AM

Is Daily Mail a news source? Hmmm I thought it was a rag for the London Underground. You mention it in the same breath as the BBC, so I ask.

#58 George Rowell

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 836 posts
  • LocationIn Perth now

Posted 23 June 2019 - 06:34 PM

A newspaper is judged by its courage to 'tease out the truth'. The BBC consistently comes up short when reporting events that do not happen to agree with the government line, they censor it like they did the story of the leaked OPCW report on 'Douma'. In contrast the DailyMail DID print the story, so it makes my list of news sources, albeit a colorful one. On anything relating to the hawkish UK foreign policy the BBC is an unreliable state-funded-organ just like RT and Xinhua.

I still check out the Beeb, they do great documentaries on World affairs, I just avoid anything political now. BTW, Alex Younger, the head of MI6 recently thanked the BBC for their support, fancy that. He is probably quite enamored with the Guardian too.
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#59 AnBr

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 13184 posts

Posted 23 June 2019 - 09:02 PM

Posted Image
“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

— Carl Sagan


Pray for Trump: Psalm 109:8

"Science is more than a body of knowledge; it is a way of thinking. I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers arc in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness.

— Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
1995


“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

— H.L. Mencken
On Politics: A Carnival of Buncombe


“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little.”

— Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Second inaugural address January, 1937

#60 LFC

    Fiscal Conservative

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 28413 posts
  • LocationPennsylvania

Posted 24 June 2019 - 12:43 PM

View Postindy, on 21 June 2019 - 10:05 AM, said:

If appearing indecisive and impulsive, and therefore someone nobody can count on for much of anything is presidential, then this president is as presidential as they come.

You mean the most presidentialiest, something you would have said yourself if you had "the best words."
" 'Individual conscience' means that women only get contraceptives if their employers, their physicians, their pharmacists, their husbands and/or fathers, pastors, and possibly their mayors, Governors, State Secretaries of Health, Congressmen, Senators, and President all agree that in that particular case they're justifiable." --D.C. Sessions

"That's the problem with being implacable foes - no one has any incentive to treat you as anything more than an obstacle to be overcome."

"The 'Road to Serfdom' is really all right turns." --Progressive Whisperer

""The GOP ... where every accusation is also a confession." --Progressive Whisperer





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users