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#21 Rue Bella

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 09:42 AM

Ooops...

https://www.cnbc.com...n-us-drone.html


Quote

Trump says ‘Iran made a very big mistake!’ by shooting down US drone

...

On Thursday, an Iranian surface-to-air missile shot down a U.S. military surveillance drone over the Strait of Hormuz in an “unprovoked attack,” U.S. officials said, disputing Iranian reports that the aircraft was over its territory.

“Iranian reports that the aircraft was over Iran are false,” U.S. Central Command said in a statement. “This was an unprovoked attack on a U.S. surveillance asset in international airspace.”

Impeachment? What impeachment?
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#22 Probabilistic

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 10:38 AM

View PostRue Bella, on 20 June 2019 - 09:42 AM, said:

Impeachment? What impeachment?

Reneging on a multi-nation agreement despite all counsel to the contrary, ostensibly because it wasn't tough enough to prevent Iran's bad behavior, but really out of spite for the previous President; resulting in further escalation of Iranian bad behavior, possibly another war in the Middle East leading to unnecessary deaths of Americans, who also happen to be his ardent supporters, further destabilizing a volatile region, isn't grounds for impeachment. After all Article 2 powers! Heil proto-king!

But he's a blowhard and coward whose bluff is about to be called.

#23 JackD

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 11:42 AM

What with target acquisition radar and surveillance photos, establishing the location of that drone beyond "did so!. . . did not!" ought to be possible.

#24 pnwguy

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 12:04 PM

View PostProbabilistic, on 20 June 2019 - 10:38 AM, said:

But he's a blowhard and coward whose bluff is about to be called.
Not General Bone Spurs. He'll be the tip of the spear, leading the troops in the landing craft, onto Chabahar Beach.

Of course, he'll be looking there for good property for a new Dumpster resort hotel and golf course, and for where the Iranians are hiding Crooked Hillary's 30 thousand emails.
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#25 baw1064

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 03:57 PM

View PostJackD, on 20 June 2019 - 11:42 AM, said:

What with target acquisition radar and surveillance photos, establishing the location of that drone beyond "did so!. . . did not!" ought to be possible.

One could say much the same thing about any number of topics the past 2.5 years.
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#26 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 04:38 PM

Radar etc. can be faked unless you're talking about a neutral third party.

In that part of the world? SRSLY?

Oh, maybe a Japanese ship or ... Hmmm.

Now, if the Iranians were thinking ahead they might have shot it down so that the debris fell on land.

More seriously, since the USA uses the same basic airframe for both spying and assassination, I'd be really reluctant to let one get anywhere near my airspace. On the flip side, Iran is also hinting that our favorite toys for CIA no-skin-at-risk dirty war might not have such an easy time there.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
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"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
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#27 Rue Bella

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 06:10 PM

Just over 30 years ago. What's an unmanned drone compared to this?

https://en.wikipedia..._Air_Flight_655


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Iran Air Flight 655

Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai, via Bandar Abbas, that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes, a guided missile cruiser of the United States Navy. The aircraft, an Airbus A300, was destroyed, and all 290 people on board, including 66 children, were killed.[1] The jet was hit while flying over Iran's territorial waters in the Persian Gulf, along the flight's usual route, shortly after departing Bandar Abbas International Airport, the flight's stopover location. Vincennes had entered Iranian territory after one of its helicopters drew warning fire from Iranian speedboats operating within Iranian territorial limits.[2][3]

The reason for the shootdown has been disputed between the governments of the two countries. According to the United States government, the crew of USS Vincennes had incorrectly identified the Airbus as an attacking F-14 Tomcat, a U.S.-made jet fighter that had been part of the Iranian Air Force inventory since the 1970s. While the F-14s had been supplied to Iran in an air-to-air configuration,[4][5] the crew of the guided missile cruiser had been briefed that the Iranian F-14s were equipped with air-to-ground ordnance.[6] Vincennes had made ten attempts to contact the aircraft on both military and civilian radio frequencies, but had received no response.[7] The International Civil Aviation Organization said that the flight crew should have been monitoring the civilian frequency.[8] According to the Iranian government, the cruiser negligently shot down the aircraft, which was transmitting IFF squawks in Mode III, a signal that identified it as a civilian aircraft, and not Mode II as used by Iranian military aircraft.[9][10] The event generated a great deal of criticism of the United States. Some analysts blamed the captain of Vincennes, William C. Rogers III, for overly-aggressive behavior in a tense and dangerous environment.[7][11] In the days immediately following the incident, US President Ronald Reagan issued a written diplomatic note to the Iranian government, expressing deep regret.[12]



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#28 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 07:17 PM

View PostRue Bella, on 20 June 2019 - 06:10 PM, said:

Quote

In the days immediately following the incident, US President Ronald Reagan issued a written diplomatic note to the Iranian government, expressing deep regret.

See? That's why Donald Trump is the greatest President ever. No way will he ever send some wimpy apology note to a bunch of ragheads.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#29 Rue Bella

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 07:50 PM

Ya, but, but... they shot down our drone, not just a bunch of brown-skinned Moozlims.
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#30 George Rowell

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 08:07 PM

View PostRue Bella, on 20 June 2019 - 07:50 PM, said:

Ya, but, but... they shot down our drone, not just a bunch of brown-skinned Moozlims.
What is that scientific term for the complacency we feel that we are somehow superior to other individuals and races? You need a mirror or an illness to get real.
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#31 baw1064

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 08:42 PM

View PostGeorge Rowell, on 20 June 2019 - 08:07 PM, said:

What is that scientific term for the complacency we feel that we are somehow superior to other individuals and races?

Tribalism?

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You need a mirror or an illness to get real.

Mirror, mirror, on the wall
Who's the fairest of them all?
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#32 baw1064

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 08:49 PM

View PostGeorge Rowell, on 20 June 2019 - 12:19 AM, said:

Whoops, never heard of them. I missed out big time somewhere, too busy being boring and keeping out of debt. Being in Saudi Arabia probably did not help either. I liked that Roy Orbie fella who drove all night though. Still get that on youtube.

I was in college. :)

Actually, the real words are "I ran" but it seemed appropriate to run them together in light of current events.

Here's the video: https://www.youtube....h?v=iIpfWORQWhU
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not.” --Dr. Seuss

#33 George Rowell

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 11:03 PM

Iran's foreign minister says they recovered Global Hawk debris in Iranian waters. That could get interesting. Predictably Exon shares surged along with a few others.

https://www.msn.com/...ying/ar-AADaTvX
A doctor knows a little about a lot. A specialist knows a lot about a little. In time the doctor knows less and less about more and more and the specialist knows more and more about less and less until ultimately the doctor knows nothing about everything and the specialist knows everything about nothing.

#34 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 05:40 AM

View PostGeorge Rowell, on 20 June 2019 - 11:03 PM, said:

Iran's foreign minister says they recovered Global Hawk debris in Iranian waters. That could get interesting. Predictably Exon shares surged along with a few others.

Iran is a signatory to an international treaty (The Law of the Sea) defining territorial waters as 12 miles out. The USA isn't, since we effectively define US territorial waters as anywhere outside of the old-3-mile distance from someone else's shore.
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#35 andydp

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 07:30 AM

CNBC reporting Pres Trump ordered air strike but called it back.

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#36 Probabilistic

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 07:36 AM

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Pssst...the reason he had to cancel retaliatory air strikes.

Even though I joke, refusing to escalate without a clear set of objectives and an understanding of how the next events would play out, is better than losing some face. So the President was Presidential? (Nah! His reasoning was different, which I have alluded to before in these pages.)

Republican foreign policy crowd's miscalculation that US could unilaterally scrap the Iran deal and then exert pressure to get a better deal is about to blow up. Obama's incrementalist approach was a better play.

#37 D. C. Sessions

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 07:50 AM

Remember the Bush43 doctrine of preemptive reprisals?

The next click of the ratchet is to declare shooting down our missiles and bombers as acts of war which justify escalation.

Watch for complaints that Iran shot down our cruise missiles, the despicable scoundrels!
The way a lot of catastrophes happen is that X doesn't occur because there are safeguards in place, therefore people assume X isn't a worry and they remove the safeguards. Then X happens.
— Nate Silver
"Robots aren't the problem. Capitalism is." -- Last words of Stephen Hawking.
These days, "libertarian" is just a euphemism for a Nazi who's afraid to commit.
"If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention." -- Heather Heyer
"I'd rather have my child, but by golly, if I gotta give her up, we're gonna make it count." -- Her mother
"Your purpose, then, plainly stated, is that you will destroy the Government, unless you be allowed to construe and enforce the Constitution as you please, on all points in dispute between you and us. You will rule or ruin in all events." -- some RINO

#38 Beelzebuddy

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 08:32 AM

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Fear Sells!

Cui bono?

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#39 Rich T Bikkies

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 09:21 AM

View PostProbabilistic, on 21 June 2019 - 07:36 AM, said:

So the President was Presidential? (Nah! His reasoning was different, which I have alluded to before in these pages.)

A stopped clock is right twice a day. So I accept that the President was Presidential, that he has been Presidential before, and will be Presidential again.

However . . .
Reality is a hallucination caused by alcohol deprivation.

Only Satan can rebuke sin. The righteous don't know enough.

God is not dead. He was merely voted out of office.

You can do anything with anybody if you just save them the trouble of thinking.

#40 indy

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Posted 21 June 2019 - 10:05 AM

If appearing indecisive and impulsive, and therefore someone nobody can count on for much of anything is presidential, then this president is as presidential as they come.





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